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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#2821 - 2012-06-24 00:08:07 UTC
Dear CCP Sreegs,

I feel that taking away the ISK earned by Goons is a grave mistake. You may see it as an exploit, but I see it as an application of forethought, planning and execution.

Let them keep their ISK. Seriously.
Kayrl Bheskagor
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#2822 - 2012-06-24 00:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Rant removed. Spitfire
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2823 - 2012-06-24 00:12:13 UTC
Isphirel wrote:
If you can't tell the qualitative difference between "exploiting" it when some underpaid overworked coder didn't implement all the necessary sanity checks to make the game not blow up, and "exploiting" it when the game functions literally exactly as designed, expected, described in the patch notes and discussed on the forums before the patch hit, you probably should stay away from the market in your own interest.


I think you should take your own advice O.o

5 trillion times

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2824 - 2012-06-24 00:17:42 UTC
Xutech wrote:
to keep things calm while minimizing the amount of community anger .



The only amount of "community anger" is the Goons and their pets blowing the forums up. Your tears have been filling swimming pools, and I can assume you will only retaliate with another temper tantrum in the form of Burn Jita 2. We all know how your last little temper tantrum a bout Mittani getting a slap on the wrist went. It accomplished nothing and made a joke of your alliance... again.

You guys should really just shut your mouths and take your punishment. I am assuming that all of the crap you keep spewing out is going to make the situation worse for you than it already is.
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#2825 - 2012-06-24 00:18:17 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
I'm about to shoot someone hostile to me, should I check first with a GM whether this is still allowed?
Well I feel it depends on what they are going to drop.

If it is a few billion ISK worth of loot it may be OK.

However, if it's a ludicrous amount of ISK from high priced loot because of CCP game mechanics - you may have a problem as you were just too successful.
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2826 - 2012-06-24 00:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: InternetSpaceship
So I noticed there isn't a lot of the "CCP is goons" talk that usually surfaces in other threads. Where are all the DevSwarm and favoritism accusations? It just doesn't feel like a goon hate thread without them. :(

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2827 - 2012-06-24 00:36:10 UTC
Frederick Sanger wrote:
Imbeciles who cannot read / understand EULA who are blinded by their hatred of their betters want to ban the content creators ITT. Typical Saturday on Eve-o.


the atypical part is CCP agreeing

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2828 - 2012-06-24 00:38:36 UTC
Haquer wrote:
Kuzim Blaky'all wrote:
Sup dawg!

dawgs use to say a dawg was causin' abuse
but stoppin a dawg, dig it, they was no use
but dig it dawg, re-re wasn't brakin' da law,
mi was jus recyclied, and gettin up a dawg craw
but ain no need for any but a reaper its tru,
jus always need to stop a bad dawg who get thru
an wreck up mi gig by bustin' mi boat
makin it hard for re-re jus to stay afloat,

but dig it dawg, mi always have a way to get thru,
you stop wi gig, yo messin' wit recyclien crew.
you stop mi from gettin mad stacks of cash,
yo gig is gonan end up tossed out wit da trash
let re-re live on, let a dawg get him goods
by lettin' mi posse into da filthy hoods
best be let mi pack gettin they a full rack
kuz if you mess wit kuzim him will always be back.

word dawg be safe.



That looks like a Sun Tzu quote

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2829 - 2012-06-24 00:40:57 UTC
Betrinna Cantis wrote:
Seems a fair approch to me. If, say in RL, you get caught doing a Ponzi scheem or something along those lines, Your assets are frozen until things are sorted out. Not that hard to figure that CCP wouldn't do the same type of things is it? I may be wrong but it makes sense to me.


ponzi schemes are allowed in eve

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#2830 - 2012-06-24 00:42:23 UTC
This is why I ******* love the Goons.

Adapt or Die
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#2831 - 2012-06-24 00:47:19 UTC
InternetSpaceship wrote:
So I noticed there isn't a lot of the "CCP is goons" talk that usually surfaces in other threads. Where are all the DevSwarm and favoritism accusations? It just doesn't feel like a goon hate thread without them. :(


That's the key, here, We Faction Five are being thrown under the bus to preserve the appearance that Goons do not actually run CCP. In fact, this entire thing was orchestrated with their approval and under their instruction.


Or, uh. Something.


You know, that sounds too dumb for even the "CCP is goons" crowd to try to claim. I guess that's why they're not here.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2832 - 2012-06-24 00:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Enaris Kerle wrote:

While the EULA may not, up until now CCP did. This is a change in the way they handled these alleged "exploits" so far, and that is in fact the whole reason for at least 130 of the existing pages in this thread (I forgot when reports of asset seizure were posted first).


Actually CCP did seize goods if the exploit was above a certain per capita threshold. ANd I'd say that profits in the tr5illions between a handful of exploiters would definitely qualify.

InternetSpaceship wrote:
So I noticed there isn't a lot of the "CCP is goons" talk that usually surfaces in other threads. Where are all the DevSwarm and favoritism accusations? It just doesn't feel like a goon hate thread without them. :(



Wait for a final verdict. It they move to give the isk back, expect the 'CCP is Goons' rage from non-goons. If they don't, expect the 'CCP has **** on the sandbox' rage from members of goonswarm
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#2833 - 2012-06-24 00:57:27 UTC
Shai 'Hulud wrote:

It seems the new "golden rule" is: If an activity is profitable you should check with CCP to make sure it's not considered an exploit.


If I find out that pressing a certain combination of buttons on an ATM I get delivered 100M dollars maybe, just maybe, I wonder if it's intended. And maybe I am not surprised when at 4am the FBI slams my door and rips me a new one.

It's not like the flaw gave 5 or 20% more income, it gave a lil more.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#2834 - 2012-06-24 01:04:47 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

Wait for a final verdict. It they move to give the isk back, expect the 'CCP is Goons' rage from non-goons. If they don't, expect the 'CCP has **** on the sandbox' rage from members of goonswarm

You'll hear "Their actions are legitimate" from lots of non-goons too, you know.

Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Dear CCP Sreegs,

I feel that taking away the ISK earned by Goons is a grave mistake. You may see it as an exploit, but I see it as an application of forethought, planning and execution.

Let them keep their ISK. Seriously.

Case in point! But then again, of course one of Eve's better known scammers would agree with us, right? Roll

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Eref Ataru
Kaos Studios
#2835 - 2012-06-24 01:06:52 UTC
A flaw is a flaw. Intentional or not. The exploitation of a flaw is against the terms of use. Which according to the sign up is a ban not an asset freeze, not a slap on the wrists it clearly states ban.

When there was that exploit on the new forum which allowed people to see areas they couldn't CCP said then, thanks for pointing it out but leave it now, sees theres showing that a flaw is there then there's using a flaw to your advantage realising that it's gone too far, informing CCP of the flaw, and hoping it all goes away.

If goons had been sensible enough to keep it private between CCP and select others then, they probably would of kept the lot, now I think they have forced their hand, and as a player of this game I expect the full punishment of banned accounts, else the only message that gets sent out is that if you get caught they take it back, the message should be you exploit you get banned. Same as bots.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#2836 - 2012-06-24 01:09:02 UTC
Kuzim Blaky'all wrote:
Sup dawg!

dawgs use to say a dawg was causin' abuse
but stoppin a dawg, dig it, they was no use
but dig it dawg, re-re wasn't brakin' da law,
mi was jus recyclied, and gettin up a dawg craw
but ain no need for any but a reaper its tru,
jus always need to stop a bad dawg who get thru
an wreck up mi gig by bustin' mi boat
makin it hard for re-re jus to stay afloat,

but dig it dawg, mi always have a way to get thru,
you stop wi gig, yo messin' wit recyclien crew.
you stop mi from gettin mad stacks of cash,
yo gig is gonan end up tossed out wit da trash
let re-re live on, let a dawg get him goods
by lettin' mi posse into da filthy hoods
best be let mi pack gettin they a full rack
kuz if you mess wit kuzim him will always be back.

word dawg be safe.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#2837 - 2012-06-24 01:12:34 UTC
Eref Ataru wrote:
A flaw is a flaw. Intentional or not. The exploitation of a flaw is against the terms of use. Which according to the sign up is a ban not an asset freeze, not a slap on the wrists it clearly states ban.

When there was that exploit on the new forum which allowed people to see areas they couldn't CCP said then, thanks for pointing it out but leave it now, sees theres showing that a flaw is there then there's using a flaw to your advantage realising that it's gone too far, informing CCP of the flaw, and hoping it all goes away.

If goons had been sensible enough to keep it private between CCP and select others then, they probably would of kept the lot, now I think they have forced their hand, and as a player of this game I expect the full punishment of banned accounts, else the only message that gets sent out is that if you get caught they take it back, the message should be you exploit you get banned. Same as bots.


Ban every titan pilot in a sensorboosted tracking link fleet... With no tank on their boat.
Also ban the ruskies that took E8 in Imensea from xetic back when 50 target painters would cause all shots fired to do tripple damage
Then you can take aryth's isk

Superior use if documented game mechanics can not be punished.
David Carel
SWAT Team Sales Consultants
#2838 - 2012-06-24 01:12:36 UTC
Eref Ataru wrote:
A flaw is a flaw. Intentional or not. The exploitation of a flaw is against the terms of use. Which according to the sign up is a ban not an asset freeze, not a slap on the wrists it clearly states ban.

When there was that exploit on the new forum which allowed people to see areas they couldn't CCP said then, thanks for pointing it out but leave it now, sees theres showing that a flaw is there then there's using a flaw to your advantage realising that it's gone too far, informing CCP of the flaw, and hoping it all goes away.

If goons had been sensible enough to keep it private between CCP and select others then, they probably would of kept the lot, now I think they have forced their hand, and as a player of this game I expect the full punishment of banned accounts, else the only message that gets sent out is that if you get caught they take it back, the message should be you exploit you get banned. Same as bots.


TOS wrote:

You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.


The only problem is, it's not a bug. The individual parts are working exactly as intended.
Akai Kvaesir
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
#2839 - 2012-06-24 01:13:25 UTC
You don't rob a bank, and then head over to the police station to give a three page report detailing EXACTLY how you bypassed the security...and expect to get away with it, do you? There was no risk, and infinite reward. Regardless of anything else, that reeks of exploitation, and at the very least is totally anti-EVE.

Frogblast the Vent Core! When the W'rkncacnter came, Pthia was killed, and Yrro in anger, flung the W'rkncacnter into the sun. The sun burned them, but they swam on its surface.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2840 - 2012-06-24 01:16:30 UTC
I love this thread. It is adding to my do not read this persons post file. The forums are so much better now that the tinfoil hatters are crawling out of the woodwork to be placed on that list.

Thanks Goons.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin