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Exploit reported .. Local not showing incoming properly
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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-06-24 00:12:50 UTC
If my ships were being shot at by a bunch of players who didn't appear in local, taking screenshots is exactly what I'd do as evidence for the petition for reimbursement.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
MauseJule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-24 03:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: MauseJule
Sry, most of this is bullshit.

I jumped in , probed the carriers down. Warped to one thana @ 10km.

I saw the carriers sitting there. 5 thanatos in one blob, 1 archon 100km off.

the thanatos were moving into random direction.

I decloaked and tackeld "TRUTHZ" with my Rapier ( my char was jukha in this fleet). At this moment small tackle jumped in cause fleet was 2 jumps out.

Small tackle needed few sec to get to me. No Reaction on the carrier. They kept moving into random direction.

Small tackle landed, started to spread points.

Only the Carrier that get point launched Drones after they get pointed.

Fleet jumped in, burned out of bubbles and warped to us. While first carrier went into armor i moved towards the archon to point it. The archon hasn't moved/aligned/warped for at least one minute but just stayed @ 0m/sec.

While killing the Carrier our Dics managed not to bubble at least one Thanatos so he could have warped off. Same with the archon, since the dic needed to warp off and back.

From my point of view it looked more like a broken bot ( edit: maybe cause broken local chat) than something else. Cause the carrier did not move together to refit but moved to random direction with no celestial inline. So the carrier were at least over 20km away from each other after we killed the first thana. Also was there no focus fire from the carriers on one target as any normal guy would do but spread over the the tackle that first tackled each carrier first. Just like Bot behavior, kill the stuff that aggressed u first.


Quote:
Repair models did not respond
Local Reps were running on all carriers during the fight. Or at least at the beginning of focusing fire on each carrier, cause all Canes had 2 neuts fitted.

Quote:

could not refit carriers even most caps were 2 km away and or redeploy drones.
The Carrier were moving away from each other, he could not refit ... Drones were out the whole time, we have not shot them, so they were shooting us the whole time. Even if warden I an Ogre I are not the best choice to shoot frigates

Quote:
Alliance members giving chase to pods and seeing them pass through bubbles like they were not even there.
We had one cloaked nulled Loki with us. Rest burned through the bubbles with mwd

Quote:
They manged to pass through 60 km of bubbled gate in battle cruisers and t2 and few t3s.In less then a few second.
It's called MWD. Proper fitted PVP ships use them

Quote:
My alliance members and screen print showed the hostiles were not in local with My capitals engaged.
Still waiting for the screenshots Roll


edit: ur fittings are bullshit. Fix your fittings and get yourself the paid Version of the bot so he also warps off instead of just sitting/moving around and also turn on your speaker so you can hear the Alert of your bot.
ALI Virgo
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#23 - 2012-06-24 07:39:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ali Virgo
I dont use bots.. We talked in local remember. I fly 6 caps my screen did not show my caps drifing. i did see them getting bumped apart... I saw 5 of my cps bubbled tried to deploy drones and nothing happened.But liek you said my carriers seemed to be going in random direction and not responding I always keep my caps alligend to a pos ready to gtfo . anmd of the drones were out as you takced you would had taken some damage some logs of me missing shots ...... but there is nothing on my side.. Just a black on my logs... By the time i could control my carriers they were far apart. I was talking in fleet an alliance while as i launched drones from truthz .. i usually kill bs in 3-5 secs. but only was able to kill a few of your fleet .. Anyways does not matter its a loss on my part. If ccp is looking into the matter then perhaps a ban hammer is on the way .. just saying.. You did not show up in other peoples local as well not just mine . I did not run away or asked for help and did the best to refit my caps. that i could Screen shots are sent to ccp.. I dont have to show you any shots .. And again im not upset about losing 6 carriers. having spies would be enough for you to get intell and kills just saying and oh yeah one of your members did state he did not see bubbles in pz he scannend me dowm.. he didnt have prob launchers fitted on kill mail perhaps it was just a troll. But what is done is done. Anyways enjoy the kills Razer till next time you have not lost much just my respect :)
ALI Virgo
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#24 - 2012-06-24 07:49:03 UTC
Sparky11080 wrote:
Your carrier had been scouted long before that kill had ever taken place. As far as bubbles on the gates...there were none.
As far as local goes, we noticed the issue heading home when our FC stopped being able to see local all together. So if your kill was because of that, then you deserve to be reimbursed for sure. Besides, if you get reimbursed that means there's another target out there for us Big smile
Raasiris Kruse
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-06-24 10:03:48 UTC
i dont see the point to lose any respect at all. spys? cmon dotlan is all u need.
i dont know why one member says he didnt see bubbles, i was there and there were bubbles, bad arranged bubbles.
during the fight we only lost 3 light tackle and no prober.

you say you don't have to post screenshots and give no proof of your speculations. but still trying to exaggerate razor would use bugs is not the kind and honest way.
MauseJule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-24 15:29:05 UTC  |  Edited by: MauseJule
I was scouting and I also had a Probe Launcher fitted.

Dotlan showed nearly 2k kills in this system so we asumed there could be multiple ships ratting.

And like i stated earlier, shouting frigssize Ships with Warden I and Ogre I is ********. Cause of speed and transversal. And yeah, we had logistics with us.

You lost your stuff botting and now you try to blame CCP for this.

I only tackled 1 Thana before small tackle landed, u could easely save the other 5 Carrier.

And once again: no spies, no exploits. Just a little bit probing and slight use of brainz to find you faster

edit: if your client froze/blackscreened what ever, how does it come u could warp out your pods immediately after getting down without even get pointed by our ceptors ? For me it is still a broken Bot maybe caused through the local chat problem but still a bot.
ALI Virgo
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#27 - 2012-06-24 18:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ali Virgo
Why was your fleet not reported in any of intell channels. not even in x-9 connecting to pz system. We did have scouts We also had a mining ops up. Better me then brew miners any day :) Regardless I understand ...I should had fitted my caps right. Triage, remote cap and reps. I did have tanking and cap fittings in cargo for a reason. I should had focused on tank then just dps while doing hordes. Just felt safer with eyes in x-9. Perhaps I should had ran away or ejected..... Right... it was fun just wish i had killed mroe of you guys thats all
Ccp does not seem to be in much of rush over this weekend to check out. my new comments on my petition or this thread. Their comments form yesterday was about hot drop.. cyno.. I am at loss about that . My words to them does not state razer is cheating, or restore my implants or ships it states the local is not working properly and there was no hot drop or cyno or what ever. My ships were not responding..... My ships being restored will not fix the local bug. The only thing the screen shot shows is that local is all alliance. While a bubble is out, For a certain reason I can not share that . I have started new accounts and bought some charters and placed them in razer alliance to play a game in relation to the matter.
That aside... I will say My accounts are important to me ali is my real life name and so is my charters and i would never use bots or leave any of my accounts afk. I have never been ganked before in a capital.It has taken alot of effort to get 6 caps without the use of plex. If you feel i have offended you or accused of cheating... It was because I felt cheated and angry with the situation I will get over it.
The way i did hordes is warping ali in archon to 0 km of the horde and warping the rest 50 km out of ali. Drones on assist to ali and ali using two target painters. one shot popping every thing. focused on dps. with defensive modules in cargo warp stabs, cloaks, and **** load of light med drones. At the end of the horde I allign my ships to safe spot and warp ali to another horde and repeat. I dont undersnatd why would you see my caps driffing apart and not reacting to you. Much less ali in archon 100 km off,
As the horde ended I recalled my drones and lost control of my ships. i could talk in fleet and in alliace but things did not reaspomd to include fleet warp. You finding me in that situation is perhaps bad luck or perhaps used of hack or spi on team speak. Third party hacks will not restore my ships.... or get the local bug fixed... All this could also be simply bad luck on my part . Im assuming your local worked just fine while fighting me 40 on one. While mine and the people that live in pz did not.. A bug should be two sided .....Anyways what is done is done> I started this thread to get CCP attention on the matter. If i could have my way I would very much like to have local removed because i enjoy being part of sb gangs, But if we have to have local it should work fine.
MauseJule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-06-24 23:34:43 UTC
For us the Local was just fine.

Nobody reported us, cause there was absolutly no one on our way to your System, so no one could report us

You state again, that u couldn't do anything with your Client.

Quote:
if your client froze/blackscreened what ever, how does it come u could warp out your pods immediately after getting down without even get pointed by our ceptors ? For me it is still a broken Bot maybe caused through the local chat problem but still a bot.


+ you could drop drones and engage our tackle. everything worked besides warping off and local. And it only did not work while you were inside the carrier cause in your pod you could warp off nice and fine. what a nice coincident.

just fix your bot and stop blaming CCP for your lost. You could have saved 5 of your 6 carriers if u would have played on your own.
ALI Virgo
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#29 - 2012-06-25 07:36:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ali Virgo
MauseJule you must been using some exploit.. how many times have I mention i dont use bots. But you keep on and on about it.. If used a bot I would have been banned. I was able to use my drones after i was almost out of armor.. I mean you must had been using exploit to go after 6 caps. Knowing they cant fight back..You are the only one of you gang to cry about **** by saying bots were used.Anyways dude good jobs on the scout and kills be proud of your self or what ever .. it is just a game to me How ever Read my first post and so on. We had a scout in X-9 local who did not see you in local.If you did not see him then there are bugs. I know i would not try to tackle 6 caps unless ..... well just saying the timing of it all> this can be simple as us being on same grid and seeing/doing different things. The reason you cant some to that and make bullshit comments about bots makes me wonder if you were aware of some exploit or just hidding something. You tackled 6 caps yet you dont show off any video or screen prints. There is a reason you knew you can take six caps and live.And there is a reason you keep saying bots when I have never used any... anyways what is the point to this if you did not cheat just say it it is only 6 carriers..... and you think i was using bots petition it ....Or try to consider your self behind 6 carriers and loosing them in that manner and having some one say that you were using a bot and that they can scan down a system with in a second.. Or they saying ccp has no bugs that can be blamed... that aside given I deserved to loose those caps fitted like that but even with that fit I should and been able to kill at least you MauseJule just saying.
Robert Farrish
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-06-25 08:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Farrish
I don't think it was exploit really. Chats were completely broken all over the universe that day and if I could be bothered I could even find couple forum threads where people are talking about broken locals...

When I logged in with my main I was missing all chat windows completely local, corp, ally, intel channels and some random channels. Clicking neocom chat icon said "no chats".

I logged in my alt and he could see chats but some people were randomly missing.

I relogged main and chat windows appeared but most people didn't show on lists. I had people talking in corp chat that didn't show in list. I saw about 40 people in local while we had 100+ men ally fleet there. Heck I was in one channel with my alt that could see my main on list but my main couldn't see my alt on list.


You could maybe try petition it as bug (not exploit) but without screenshots CCP logs will probably show nothing.

EDIT: Hmm actually I think chats were broken 23th and original post is from 22nd so might not be related to same issue afterall.
MauseJule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-06-25 12:39:24 UTC
ALI Virgo wrote:
MauseJule you must been using some exploit.. how many times have I mention i dont use bots. But you keep on and on about it.. If used a bot I would have been banned. I was able to use my drones after i was almost out of armor.. I mean you must had been using exploit to go after 6 caps. Knowing they cant fight back..You are the only one of you gang to cry about **** by saying bots were used.Anyways dude good jobs on the scout and kills be proud of your self or what ever .. it is just a game to me How ever Read my first post and so on. We had a scout in X-9 local who did not see you in local.If you did not see him then there are bugs. I know i would not try to tackle 6 caps unless ..... well just saying the timing of it all> this can be simple as us being on same grid and seeing/doing different things. The reason you cant some to that and make bullshit comments about bots makes me wonder if you were aware of some exploit or just hidding something. You tackled 6 caps yet you dont show off any video or screen prints. There is a reason you knew you can take six caps and live.And there is a reason you keep saying bots when I have never used any... anyways what is the point to this if you did not cheat just say it it is only 6 carriers..... and you think i was using bots petition it ....Or try to consider your self behind 6 carriers and loosing them in that manner and having some one say that you were using a bot and that they can scan down a system with in a second.. Or they saying ccp has no bugs that can be blamed... that aside given I deserved to loose those caps fitted like that but even with that fit I should and been able to kill at least you MauseJule just saying.


There was no one in X-9.

We were not using exploits. I tackled you, cause we had logistics with us. So we only risked to lose our small tackle.

I say you were botting because that what you telling here is different from what we saw on field.

You were able to launch drones. You were able to attack us with your Drones. You were able to run Reps till you run out of Cap. You were able to move. You were able to warp off your Pods instantly after popping.

But never the less you are blaming CCP that you were not able to do anything.

The carrier behave like being bots and your "story" does not show the opposite. We killed 6 botting Carrier and thats enough for me. Why should i Petition you if i can just kill you in 2-3 weeks again in your carriers and have fun again cause your to stupid to setup you bot correctly.
ALI Virgo
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#32 - 2012-06-25 19:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ali Virgo
i had control of my clients near the end of the fight. i did not say i never had control of my ships. I said for the first part of the tackle I did not have control. I was able to save 2 of 6 of my pods. As your bubbles went down to let out your pods outs. I did target wrecks and cans as last of my capital died..But again for the first part my caps were not responding to me.
You did say ali virgo did nothing .. First thing i did was try to fleet warp all my accounts as i first saw bubbles go up .. ali did not respond even at 50 km away. I went to his window and tried to deploy drones to guard truthz since hostile were not near him nothing happened. I talked to alliance on truth first then ali staying there are nuts in system all my caps are tackled. To which some of the people were suprized. Shortly after 40 some nuts showed in local and were already on my capitals.. Which left me to believe either bubbles were distroyed or local was buggy or some how you ignored them.One of your members did say there were no bubbles. This attack happened a few mins after Shane said he was leaving as scout in x-9 on team speak. What was not mentioned he was replaced. If your local was ****** too how can you say for certain that there was no one in x-9...Unless you can be 100 percent of that some how.. Anyways what is done is done CCp is looking into it I got a nice reply form them. Today there was added stuff to launcher right.... :)
6 capitals are not worth accusing people of cheating if they did not. I know its possible that you guys did not cheat. You guys have been respectful in brew local chats and have mentioned that there were issues even with some of your locals. I would appologize for my misspelling though.. fly safe
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#33 - 2012-06-26 06:47:38 UTC
Somehow sounds like your client(s) lost synchronisation.

My true stories
Cielouranos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-06-28 08:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Cielouranos
Vicata Heth wrote:
Cielouranos wrote:
ALI Virgo wrote:
You jumped in system and were able to point my caps without showing in local.within seconds.


I wasn't in this fleet but there are some holes in your argument that invoke skepticism. If you couldn't see them in local, how do you know that you were pointed within seconds of them entering system?

EVEN IF this is a bug and your ships were lost due to a bug, I don't think they should be replaced based on hearsay alone because that sets a terrible precedent where, as long as the bug isn't fixed, anyone can claim they couldn't see their attacker in local and get any ship lost in pvp replaced.

The ships should only be replaced if you can provide screenshots of being attacked by the Razor fleet with your local chat window open and not showing them.


It stops being hearsay when multiple people reported the same issues with local not showing everyone. Screenshots shouldn't be necessary because I know I wouldn't be thinking to take screenshots during all of this, I'd be more worried about saving my ships. As far as the bubbles who knows, maybe it just seemed to go by faster than it really did, and the ships/pods made it through in normal time. But local not showing everyone is definitely something that's been experienced by multiple users, so the proof is already there.

You discourage the reimbursement of the ship, yet I highly doubt you would have thought to take screenshots while all this was going on for one, and for two I'm willing to bet you'd be singing a completely different tune if it were your cap ships not getting replaced.

For the record I don't know the person who lost their ships at all, never talked to them, never shot them, etc.


I'm not saying that the local bug is completely hearsay, obviously it's not. But if you let anyone claim without proof that this bug caused their death don't you think that would be abused? "This bug caused my death" is hearsay unless there is some screenshots (since i'm guessing the logs show nothing).

Either way this guy's story is terrible and inconsistent and he was obviously either botting or AFK. MAYBE rzr didn't show up in local due to a bug but the claims that we are warping in bubbles or somehow causing him to lose control of all his ships is ridiculous and shows that he's reaching for any excuse to be reimbursed for his carelessness.
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