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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2761 - 2012-06-23 22:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Please do not engage in speculations. Spitfire
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2762 - 2012-06-23 22:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Enaris Kerle
Xen Solarus wrote:
The key question for me is would something similar to this be allowed to happen in "the real world".

The answer is a definate no. Market manipulation is definately not allowed. It so happens that the same applies in EvE.

Yeah, starting two days ago.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Wibla
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2763 - 2012-06-23 22:11:21 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Have they ruled on it then?


Yeah, Sreeg was calling it an exploit, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say their isk is gone forever. Whether there will be other penalties invoked due to the quite amazing number of violations, when you get down to it, they racked up as events progressed is, however, not yet known.


Get out.
Minerva Seraph
Semitic Sciences
#2764 - 2012-06-23 22:12:39 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Minerva Seraph wrote:


A lot of us expected the rule of the game to be "If it's the logical ends of the code, so be it" - with the exception of CCP's rulings, applied forward. Metagaming cartels, products of market orders and refining, and spreadsheet abuse don't break the rules. Reacting limitless amounts of moon materials did break the rules.

Let it be.


Also; wardec changes recently

EVE isnt meant to be fair. As it was said. Why should CCP be?
HTFU


CCP didn't retroactively punish the corporations or players involved with the wardec mechanic issues, did they? They simply patched it out in the upcoming 1.1 release.

That's a coder's way of saying "good job. Now try it again."
Isphirel
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2765 - 2012-06-23 22:14:24 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
The key question for me is would something similar to this be allowed to happen in "the real world".

The answer is a definate no.


I'm going to use that line when I petition CCP for reimbursement of my freighter that was autopiloting through nullsec! After all, "in the real world", you wouldn't be allowed to just fly up to it and shoot missiles at it, right?
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2766 - 2012-06-23 22:14:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Wibla wrote:

Get out.



Nah, you should have seen it: the clouds parted, and CCP Sreegs came down streaming trails of glory and a heavenly choir sang out as he ***** slapped goons with the his dev hand.

I must doff my chapeau. his ability to troll someone is positively Biblical.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2767 - 2012-06-23 22:15:45 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Salient Soldier wrote:
I like how Goons can admit to breaking EvE, and they dont even get a slap on the wrist.

CCP, grow some balls and empty all Goon wallets to 0.

Then perma ban all accounts of those who admitted to being involved.

Then Fix EvE, k thx bai.


i would say put their wallets to negative! That would be a nice punishment instead of ban!


Only if you give their space to someone else lol They still have all their tech moons. Whats infinite money to that

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2768 - 2012-06-23 22:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


Only if you give their space to someone else lol They still have all their tech moons. Whats infinite money to that



Does them no good. You can't sell anything or send it to an alt with -neg isk. It'd take hours to get alts with cash out there, and by then...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2769 - 2012-06-23 22:19:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Have they ruled on it then?


Yeah, Sreeg was calling it an exploit, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say their isk is gone forever. Whether there will be other penalties invoked due to the quite amazing number of violations, when you get down to it, they racked up as events progressed is, however, not yet known.
I shall quote him.


CCP Sreegs wrote:
I don't really want to say just yet, but basically if you know you're using a system in a certain way in order to gain massive resources, whether you're taking advantage of a design flaw or not and whether we classify it as an exploit or not we're still well within our rights to fix the glitch. I'm not going to comment on what we do or don't do at this point because I don't prejudge the results of investigations.


CCP Sreegs wrote:
You know we won't comment on individual items on this forum and we welcome you to do the same.

Some LP was seized from people who were abusing, and I do mean abusing, this mechanic in order to prevent a crash of the FW markets. It will stay that way until Monday at the earliest.

Nothing that's been printed by any news source is in any way accurate and any numbers that have been printed were made up by these "journalists".


CCP Sreegs wrote:
We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that.


Hmmm

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2770 - 2012-06-23 22:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
The key question for me is would something similar to this be allowed to happen in "the real world".

The answer is a definate no. Market manipulation is definately not allowed. It so happens that the same applies in EvE.

Yeah, starting two days ago.


actually no. You just forgot the game regulations aka
"EULA exploiting game mechanics is a bannable offence"

Also you forgot CCPs golden rule aka
"If in doubt always ask to get cover before you act or be banned"
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2771 - 2012-06-23 22:23:06 UTC
Xutech wrote:


Has CCP contacted any media outlets about this story? It would make great reading and might attract more players.




Why hasnt Mittens? He's usually the first one to jump on that idea

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2772 - 2012-06-23 22:23:32 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
actually no. You just forgot the game regulations aka
"EULA exploiting game mechanics is a bannable offence"

We're going in circles here. Why is X not allowed? Because it's an exploit. Why is it an exploit? Because it isn't allowed. Up until two days ago, market manipulation was a perfectly legitimate tactics in the game, albeit not in real life. So that comparison falls flat on its face.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2773 - 2012-06-23 22:24:19 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

Why hasnt Mittens? He's usually the first one to jump on that idea



One of them was actually trying to contact his Mitness, but as of yet has not heard from him. It may be that Der Mittani is out of town for the weekend.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2774 - 2012-06-23 22:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Andrea Roche wrote:
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Xen Solarus wrote:
The key question for me is would something similar to this be allowed to happen in "the real world".

The answer is a definate no. Market manipulation is definately not allowed. It so happens that the same applies in EvE.

Yeah, starting two days ago.


actually no. You just forgot the game regulations aka
"EULA exploiting game mechanics is a bannable offence"

Also you forgot CCPs golden rule aka
"If in doubt always ask to get cover before you act or be banned"


Thought their golden rule was "we make the rules"

So; when is Mittani's blog on the subject?
When can we expect the "leak"s to start?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2775 - 2012-06-23 22:25:25 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


Thought their golden rule was "we make the rules"



I always thought it was 'Pay up, Chump!'
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2776 - 2012-06-23 22:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
corestwo wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

corestwo wrote:
You sort of see why many people see this as a massive change in precedent, right?


Because its Goons getting punished?
Damn, youre right

Shoot, you're right, I guess all the people posting in this thread about how they don't like CCP trodding in the sandbox are goon alts. I guess you think Riverini, goon hater extraordinaire is probably a goon alt too. He'll be so heartbroken. :(


Thought he was a mittens alt?

Funny, I think thats the first time Goons have given him credence. Desperate much?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2777 - 2012-06-23 22:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
actually no. You just forgot the game regulations aka
"EULA exploiting game mechanics is a bannable offence"

We're going in circles here. Why is X not allowed? Because it's an exploit. Why is it an exploit? Because it isn't allowed. Up until two days ago, market manipulation was a perfectly legitimate tactics in the game, albeit not in real life. So that comparison falls flat on its face.


"You" (dont exactly mean you personally) did not ask if it was ok for to exploit the game mechanic this way.
And so you did not get cover. Something in the back of your head would have said "beware". Ignore the message and get punished.
Back again to golden rule: Always ask before you act! I came close to be ban myself but the difference is i acted on the "beware" message and so i did not get banned.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2778 - 2012-06-23 22:40:37 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


Only if you give their space to someone else lol They still have all their tech moons. Whats infinite money to that



Does them no good. You can't sell anything or send it to an alt with -neg isk. It'd take hours to get alts with cash out there, and by then...


nah they just lot that alt high sec transit corp they use when wardecced. Im betting it has enough to cover rhe spread.

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#2779 - 2012-06-23 22:40:58 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Funny, I think thats the first time Goons have given him credence. Desperate much?


It's not as though anything I do will change CCP's judgement in the end, one way or another. Hard to be desperate when you can't change the outcome.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#2780 - 2012-06-23 22:43:24 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
actually no. You just forgot the game regulations aka
"EULA exploiting game mechanics is a bannable offence"

We're going in circles here. Why is X not allowed? Because it's an exploit. Why is it an exploit? Because it isn't allowed. Up until two days ago, market manipulation was a perfectly legitimate tactics in the game, albeit not in real life. So that comparison falls flat on its face.



Mate why are you arguing whether it was legal or not the original op new it wasn't and reported it to CCP as a possible exploit (unfortunately after he had rinsed it) so where is the argument ?

Tal

P.S You stole my avatar or you have exceedingly good taste