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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2741 - 2012-06-23 21:39:02 UTC
Rasmido wrote:
Tolokar wrote:

What's htfu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q



What's funny is Goons forgot this line in the lyrics:

"You best watch out ***** if you're an exploiting scammer
Guard will gank you in the face with his big ban hammer"
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2742 - 2012-06-23 21:41:26 UTC
Xutech wrote:
CCP have been surprisingly tight lipped about the whole situation, sending out CCP SREEGS "the cooler" to keep things calm while minimizing the amount of community anger and wildfire speculation going on.

Has CCP contacted any media outlets about this story? It would make great reading and might attract more players.

I certainly hope some of you re paste the choicest quotes to Kugutsumen before they are removed / redacted by the fair minded moderators of this just city.



I dunno what CCP will do, but I forwarded this thread to some contacts in the game media. Fun Fun Fun
Xutech
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2743 - 2012-06-23 21:43:33 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Rasmido wrote:
Tolokar wrote:

What's htfu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q



What's funny is Goons forgot this line in the lyrics:

"You best watch out ***** if you're an exploiting scammer
Guard will gank you in the face with his big ban hammer"


The definition of exploiting is also redefined daily.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#2744 - 2012-06-23 21:43:46 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Mechaet wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Maggie Maggie wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
When do we get to the part where we stop pretending that a gap in the timing of value calculation (programming) wasn't what was being taken advantage of here? This wasn't just market manipulation it was taking advantage of a flaw in the code.


It is not always apparent what is a flaw in the code and what is a flaw in the design. Sometimes it is blatantly obvious, as in the ferogel dupe. A variety of now-defunct GARPA projects relied on flaws in the code, yes, we knew it, you fixed it, it's done.

This, however, does not look like a flaw in the code. This does not look like code being pushed into an edge case where it goes for a variable that has not been initialized and instead picks up old junk that just so happens to not be junk. We've been there, this doesn't smell like that. The code didn't default into a case where it unexpectedly decides to calculate an EVE-wide 90 day moving average. That was a design error, not an implementation error. And design errors are fair game.


Flaw in code was a bad way of saying things v0v You're correct that the code was doing what it was written to do. However when the new mechanic was introduced a system was being leveraged to determine the value of a currency that was not built for that purpose and that's what caused this.

Only because a developer decided to include a value that the players can move, which in retrospect was a terribly bad idea. The math worked exactly as designed.


Nobody's denying that here whatsoever.

I think if you would just admit there are limits to to your sandbox and that if you screw something up you will intervene if you see something you don't like regardless of whether it's simply clever use of mechanics or an exploit of bad code, there wouldn't be such a disconnect between you and those you are arguing with in this thread.

Instead of saying "EvE is a wide-open sandbox" every time any one of you devs is in front of a camera... just add "pretty much" in front of "wide-open" and if asked explain it.

It would solve your communication problem here I think.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Tolokar
Perkone
Caldari State
#2745 - 2012-06-23 21:44:59 UTC
I see a lot of people un subbing for goon getting special treatment using an exploit where the common joe will get banned and have an investigation put on them. Like seriously ban the top. 5 collect the assets and back to normal
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2746 - 2012-06-23 21:45:42 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
Perpetuum actually.


ah

Forgot about that one. Never looked into it

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2747 - 2012-06-23 21:48:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
I just grabbed this from a gamesite forum taking about Dust. These were the first two posts:

"Matthew94" wrote:
"albino boo" wrote:
Sounds good, but I think the big problem is going to be the fact the EVEs player base tend to be total jerks.


Yup, the only things you hear from the game are "look how much this guy ****** over these people!"


These are hardly unique responses, that majority come from the shooter crowd that CCP is trying to recruit into EvE.

So, please, tell me again how this is good PR?
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#2748 - 2012-06-23 21:50:45 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:

corestwo wrote:
You sort of see why many people see this as a massive change in precedent, right?


Because its Goons getting punished?
Damn, youre right

Shoot, you're right, I guess all the people posting in this thread about how they don't like CCP trodding in the sandbox are goon alts. I guess you think Riverini, goon hater extraordinaire is probably a goon alt too. He'll be so heartbroken. :(

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2749 - 2012-06-23 21:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Dave stark wrote:
136 pages of beating a dead horse.

why is it 136 pages long?
nobody has been banned, items have been seized to stop a market crash. move along.


Tell that to Goons lol

Wait I thought it was 1.5 tril every day?

Or was it a titan every other day

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2750 - 2012-06-23 21:56:05 UTC
Xutech wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Rasmido wrote:
Tolokar wrote:

What's htfu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q



What's funny is Goons forgot this line in the lyrics:

"You best watch out ***** if you're an exploiting scammer
Guard will gank you in the face with his big ban hammer"


The definition of exploiting is also redefined daily.


well you forgot CCPs golden rule.
"If in doubt always ask prior acting, that way you are always covered!"
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2751 - 2012-06-23 21:57:30 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


Or was it a titan every other day


Hey, i can roll a titan every other day, but I charge a lot, in advance, and don't give refunds.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2752 - 2012-06-23 21:58:04 UTC
Xython wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:


ccp is like fox news... fair and balanced



Really, if you get down to it though, tossing out the alliance mechanic, limiting the size of corps, and erasing 9 years of accumulated wealth and SP would, actually, make the game fair and balanced.


"It would be fair and balanced if CCP would violate every guiding principle they have ever lived by in order to specifically screw over a group of people I don't like!"

Get a clue. And a life.



Thought Goons would rule? Now youre being screwed over?

Make up your mind

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Powell Morgan
Minmatar Republic
#2753 - 2012-06-23 21:58:34 UTC
I don't know if anyone else has said this, partly because the rate of growth of this thread exceeds my reading alacrity and because sifting through the tear stained posts drew on for ever, but:

It seems to me that if Aryth hadn't started it by bragging and possibly gloating about this whole horrendous affair, the entire shitstorm that is this thread could possibly have been avoided all together.

That; and the fact that CCP may or may not have seized the assets of the, for lack of a better word, perpetrators.

I may also just be tired and a bit stupid?
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#2754 - 2012-06-23 21:59:39 UTC
The key question for me is would something similar to this be allowed to happen in "the real world".

The answer is a definate no. Market manipulation is definately not allowed. It so happens that the same applies in EvE. So personally i think CCP is well within their right to snatch all that isk from everyone involved. Afterall, they knew the scale of the manipulation. Why not just come out and say "btw, we're about to make an absolute KILLING from what we've discovered!!". Rather than the afterwards "omg look what we did, please let us keep our stuff". The fact they waited to after indicates that they knew what they were doing was naughty.

They're already stupidly rich anyways, so meh! Lol

And then perhaps in future more players will report things like this, and actually ask CCP if its ok to do something a bit dodgy, before they go ahead and make trillions just cause they found an awesome shortcut.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Reptail
#2755 - 2012-06-23 22:00:55 UTC
This **** need to stop

Ground Shiwer
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2756 - 2012-06-23 22:01:08 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:


Thought Goons would rule? Now youre being screwed over?

Make up your mind



I don't think that it ever occurs to him that I'd probably be far more screwed over than half his alliance. I mean, hell, they're screaming about losing just 5 trillion isk. I'd be out nearly 12 and 150m SP.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2757 - 2012-06-23 22:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Annasys wrote:
Burn New Eden.


Yes do. In multiples of 5 trillion isks. Make CCP pay.

No More Heroes wrote:
Annasys wrote:
Burn New Eden.


Winter is coming™


Why wait?

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2758 - 2012-06-23 22:02:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Powell Morgan wrote:
I don't know if anyone else has said this, partly because the rate of growth of this thread exceeds my reading alacrity and because sifting through the tear stained posts drew on for ever, but:

It seems to me that if Aryth hadn't started it by bragging and possibly gloating about this whole horrendous affair, the entire shitstorm that is this thread could possibly have been avoided all together.

That; and the fact that CCP may or may not have seized the assets of the, for lack of a better word, perpetrators.

I may also just be tired and a bit stupid?



No, that sounds about right. It just goes to show: don't exploit and then post in the forums about how you're smarter than the devs and try to make them look like bitches.

It's not Rocket Science V, people. At best it's Mining I.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2759 - 2012-06-23 22:05:22 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Powell Morgan wrote:
I don't know if anyone else has said this, partly because the rate of growth of this thread exceeds my reading alacrity and because sifting through the tear stained posts drew on for ever, but:

It seems to me that if Aryth hadn't started it by bragging and possibly gloating about this whole horrendous affair, the entire shitstorm that is this thread could possibly have been avoided all together.

That; and the fact that CCP may or may not have seized the assets of the, for lack of a better word, perpetrators.

I may also just be tired and a bit stupid?



No, that sounds about right. It just goes to show: don't exploit and then post in the forums about how you're smarter than the devs and try to make them look like bitches.

It's not Rocket Science V, people. At best it's Mining I.
Have they ruled on it then?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Gynax Gallenor
Conquering Darkness
#2760 - 2012-06-23 22:05:49 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ok I'm going to go watch The Footy. It's been a gas folks.


And after all that, France couldn't be arsed showing up to provide you with much of a distraction. :)

Fly Reckless, cos flying safe is no damn fun!

http://flyreckless.com/newsite/