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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Prandax Xeon
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2281 - 2012-06-23 13:11:41 UTC
CCP screws up!
Goons make tons of isk!
CCP takes it all away!
Goons make tons of tears!

Best week ever, I'll resub!

How is a Wyvern like an Ibis?  Neither have a drone bay!  
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2282 - 2012-06-23 13:13:01 UTC
Popping in. Will be out of pocket rest of day. I was hoping to have seen a Dev Blog by now but no dice.

Status for me right now:
1.2T in hard assets taken at least. Possibly more. I would need to go and put a hard value on all the BPC's seized. This was mixed in with my own stuff, I didn't keep separate stacks.
1.7B in LP zeroed out. Yes, that is a B.

So even if you value LP at 1k isk each, when it's 2k if you cashed it in properly, I am out about 3T since last night. No word yet from CCP. Going to wait to see what the statement says, this is pretty surprising to me as we feel this is all legitimate gameplay and they seem to be reflecting that in their press releases. So I don't want to speculate too much right now on their thought process. It's a black box right now.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#2283 - 2012-06-23 13:16:25 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Popping in. Will be out of pocket rest of day. I was hoping to have seen a Dev Blog by now but no dice.

Status for me right now:
1.2T in hard assets taken at least. Possibly more. I would need to go and put a hard value on all the BPC's seized. This was mixed in with my own stuff, I didn't keep separate stacks.
1.7B in LP zeroed out. Yes, that is a B.

So even if you value LP at 1k isk each, when it's 2k if you cashed it in properly, I am out about 3T since last night. No word yet from CCP. Going to wait to see what the statement says, this is pretty surprising to me as we feel this is all legitimate gameplay and they seem to be reflecting that in their press releases. So I don't want to speculate too much right now on their thought process. It's a black box right now.



You know we won't comment on individual items on this forum and we welcome you to do the same.

Some LP was seized from people who were abusing, and I do mean abusing, this mechanic in order to prevent a crash of the FW markets. It will stay that way until Monday at the earliest.

Nothing that's been printed by any news source is in any way accurate and any numbers that have been printed were made up by these "journalists".

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2284 - 2012-06-23 13:18:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
i admire someones ability to see the market and make profit.
That been said, I do hate the hypocracy of goons calling high sec nerf to incursions while at the same time runing a permanent suicide on hulks and on top of that exploiting the market!

I remember a few years back, the mitani in his speach talking about how Ev0ke in the past exploited the moons cos of some "feature" and how Ev0ke made big isk back then. He spoke with as much hatred as we have witnessed him speaking about the DRF at their height of power.
Funny how its ok for them to exploit the market because of some "feature" BUT its NOT ok when sombody else does it, like Ev0ke!!

This is why CCP should not pay attention to goons. If they cry for something, you can be sure they are are making money somehow from it. The mitani being part of the CSM in the past does not help me in anyway to trust him now even less. To be the lead of the CSM in the past and at the same time do this, its over use of position.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2285 - 2012-06-23 13:18:59 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Popping in. Will be out of pocket rest of day. I was hoping to have seen a Dev Blog by now but no dice.

Status for me right now:
1.2T in hard assets taken at least. Possibly more. I would need to go and put a hard value on all the BPC's seized. This was mixed in with my own stuff, I didn't keep separate stacks.
1.7B in LP zeroed out. Yes, that is a B.

So even if you value LP at 1k isk each, when it's 2k if you cashed it in properly, I am out about 3T since last night. No word yet from CCP. Going to wait to see what the statement says, this is pretty surprising to me as we feel this is all legitimate gameplay and they seem to be reflecting that in their press releases. So I don't want to speculate too much right now on their thought process. It's a black box right now.



You know we won't comment on individual items on this forum and we welcome you to do the same.

Some LP was seized from people who were abusing, and I do mean abusing, this mechanic in order to prevent a crash of the FW markets. It will stay that way until Monday at the earliest.

Nothing that's been printed by any news source is in any way accurate and any numbers that have been printed were made up by these "journalists".


Thanks for the reply. I will sit tight and be dark most of the weekend due to RL. So no posting spree for me. Radio silence for me.

Again thanks for the reply, we didn't know what/why. This clears things up a lot.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2286 - 2012-06-23 13:22:51 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Some LP was seized from people who were abusing, and I do mean abusing, this mechanic in order to prevent a crash of the FW markets. It will stay that way until Monday at the earliest.

Who's right then? You or Xhagen? Was it an exploit, or wasn't it?

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2287 - 2012-06-23 13:27:47 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Some LP was seized from people who were abusing, and I do mean abusing, this mechanic in order to prevent a crash of the FW markets. It will stay that way until Monday at the earliest.

Who's right then? You or Xhagen? Was it an exploit, or wasn't it?


Well, to be fair to Sreegs. He didn't say exploit. He said abuse. Maybe it's semantics, but the devil is in the details sometimes. Goona throw down a few more posts before I am out. This is some good drama. ROLLERCOASTER

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2288 - 2012-06-23 13:30:14 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
i admire someones ability to see the market and make profit.
That been said, I do hate the hypocracy of goons calling high sec nerf to incursions while at the same time runing a permanent suicide on hulks and on top of that exploiting the market!


what's the hypocrisy there?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Natasha Fatality
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2289 - 2012-06-23 13:31:35 UTC
This is really the most fascinating thread I can remember reading in a long time. I feel lucky to have just gotten into EVE right as this is all going down. It seems like a really pivotal moment for the game's community. I have to admit, I really want to become a Goon myself at this point. :)
Dave Stark
#2290 - 2012-06-23 13:32:22 UTC
i like the reasoning for their action, CCP hasn't gone totally mad.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2291 - 2012-06-23 13:32:46 UTC
Bolow Santosi wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:


Create a fake database value to be used in FW LP reward calculation for ship kills, then go inject fake database number into calculation for LP by killing a ship with fake database number in cargo or as ship. Sell LP and Profit.


They never created a fake database value. They inflated slow moving/stagnant items and manipulated them to be significantly higher so they could generate LP more efficiently and effectively. Nothing about that is fake.


If this had been player vs player manipulation CCP would not have batted an eye. Where these goons erred was making it player vs CCP manipulation.

This is no different than the snake oil salesmen that frequent your local church pushing their faith healing. Government doesn't care. Now, try selling government such a service, expect to get the smack down.

Goon tears best tears.

Don't ban me, bro!
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2292 - 2012-06-23 13:32:51 UTC
Natasha Fatality wrote:
This is really the most fascinating thread I can remember reading in a long time. I feel lucky to have just gotten into EVE right as this is all going down. It seems like a really pivotal moment for the game's community. I have to admit, I really want to become a Goon myself at this point. :)


it really is turning into one of those moments that define EVE. Sure I am biased, but doesn't everyone like a happy ending?

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Dave Stark
#2293 - 2012-06-23 13:33:01 UTC
Natasha Fatality wrote:
This is really the most fascinating thread I can remember reading in a long time. I feel lucky to have just gotten into EVE right as this is all going down. It seems like a really pivotal moment for the game's community. I have to admit, I really want to become a Goon myself at this point. :)


no you don't, this is much better as a spectator sport :P
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2294 - 2012-06-23 13:33:23 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
i admire someones ability to see the market and make profit.
That been said, I do hate the hypocracy of goons calling high sec nerf to incursions while at the same time runing a permanent suicide on hulks and on top of that exploiting the market!


what's the hypocrisy there?


read further into the post and then you see the hypocracy
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2295 - 2012-06-23 13:34:56 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Bolow Santosi wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:


Create a fake database value to be used in FW LP reward calculation for ship kills, then go inject fake database number into calculation for LP by killing a ship with fake database number in cargo or as ship. Sell LP and Profit.


They never created a fake database value. They inflated slow moving/stagnant items and manipulated them to be significantly higher so they could generate LP more efficiently and effectively. Nothing about that is fake.


If this had been player vs player manipulation CCP would not have batted an eye. Where these goons erred was making it player vs CCP manipulation.

This is no different than the snake oil salesmen that frequent your local church pushing their faith healing. Government doesn't care. Now, try selling government such a service, expect to get the smack down.

Goon tears best tears.


Not quite. If we had been selling items to NPC orders, that would have been Goons vs CCP. However, all the ISK involved either came from our own wallets (hundreds of billions) or from the market orders of public traders (hundreds of billions). Since no ISK was created, it was only transferring wealth between players, not so much CCP printing ISK. ISK was lost.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2296 - 2012-06-23 13:35:27 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
i admire someones ability to see the market and make profit.
That been said, I do hate the hypocracy of goons calling high sec nerf to incursions while at the same time runing a permanent suicide on hulks and on top of that exploiting the market!


what's the hypocrisy there?


read further into the post and then you see the hypocracy


because this is very much like covertly duping ferrogel for months

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2297 - 2012-06-23 13:35:59 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
i admire someones ability to see the market and make profit.
That been said, I do hate the hypocracy of goons calling high sec nerf to incursions while at the same time runing a permanent suicide on hulks and on top of that exploiting the market!


what's the hypocrisy there?


read further into the post and then you see the hypocracy


We are running suicide ganks on hulks as a form of market manipulation. See lowends. I am not sure if that makes it a good or worse thing to you to know there is an ulterior motive, but there you go.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#2298 - 2012-06-23 13:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Cutter Isaacson
Richard Desturned wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
nerf to incursions............. exploiting the market!


what's the hypocrisy there?


Clearer? Incursions were rebalanced after CCP decided, and rightly so, that the Incursion mechanic was in need of fixing owing to people making obscene amounts of ISK, the same applies to the FW mechanic. Thus hypocrisy. I'm not going to take sides in your argument, I just thought a little clarification was needed.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Natasha Fatality
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2299 - 2012-06-23 13:36:46 UTC
Aryth wrote:
it really is turning into one of those moments that define EVE. Sure I am biased, but doesn't everyone like a happy ending?


Everyone likes drama, at least. This is just a tad bit more entertaining than, say, the Winter's Veil bullshit in WoW. :P
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2300 - 2012-06-23 13:37:14 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
nerf to incursions............. exploiting the market!


what's the hypocrisy there?


Clearer?


that's not hypocrisy

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration