These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
flakeys
Doomheim
#2261 - 2012-06-23 08:55:49 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Has anyone actually had their mind changed on their opinion about this? I mean from the 113 pages of debating back and forth. Or has everyone just entrenched in even further than they were before?



IT's never debating that goes on in here so i'd have a hard time believing even some might have changed their opinion along the way Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Cordata Jomar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2262 - 2012-06-23 08:59:58 UTC
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvisir.is%2Fmisnotudu-glufu-i-eve-online---hognudust-um-21-milljon-isk-i-leiknum%2Farticle%2F2012120629638&act=url

I'm just going to leave this here.
However, let me leave you a quick TL:DR, for those of you too lazy to actually expend the effort of clicking on a link.

Quote:
pétur aka CCP Xhagen says. "Technically speaking, they were not doing anything that was forbidden. Thus, it is unclear what will be done."
Kwa Zulu
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#2263 - 2012-06-23 09:11:08 UTC
this thread is delicious
Haifisch Zahne
Hraka Manufacture GmbH
#2264 - 2012-06-23 09:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Haifisch Zahne
Probably said somewhere in the depths of the prior 114 pages of posts, but...

You played right into CCP's hands!

At Fanfest, CCP stated it was there intent to reduce the rampant inflation by:

* Removing ISK from the game using the established ISK sinks. DONE. You Goons fed CCP's ISK sinks with market orders fees, and, I imagine, as partial payment for those LP store purchases.

Good job, Goons. You played into CCP's hands. You reduced inflation, AND MADE YOUR INVESTMENT WORTH LESS.


* You have successfully flooded the market with Goods. Less ISK, more Goods. You Goons have played into CCP's (unmentioned) goal to increase Goods (to bolster the other half of the Eve Balance Sheet) in order to reduce rampant inflation. (By the looks of it, you exchanged worthless Goods for high-value Goods, at a marginal cost. And, you Goons destroyed vast mineral reserves, another CCP goal.) Just as we saw a huge drop in prices on skill books and the other items *given away by CCP* for the 9th anniversary of Eve, we shall be able to mark this day, Goon's Fool Day, as the day that prices plummeted in Eve, making your investment worth less.

Good job, Goons. You played into CCP's hands. You reduced inflation, AND MADE YOUR INVESTMENT WORTH LESS.

* Simply on the face of it, you paid less for the items than the general market rate. This is, by very definition, deflation.


Good job, Goons.

(But, no, really, good job. Excellent gaming the system. Just too bad you PLAYED INTO CCP's HANDS AND MADE YOUR INVESTMENT WORTH LESS.)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2265 - 2012-06-23 09:50:40 UTC
Yes it was CCP's plan all along to release a system with a major loophole knowing a small number of Goons would find it and make absurd amounts of ISK. All along. They are the puppetmasters and you are the puppets.

It's so clear now.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#2266 - 2012-06-23 09:53:10 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,


At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. Don’t be That Guy.



By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.



Serious question Sreegs, is this kind of thing actually cheating ? (ie against the rules) I read their document a couple of nights ago and though sure it really did blow massive holes through the eve game mechanics in order to make a giant profit - was it actually illegal ?




yes. exploit is exploit. ISK may not have been created from thin air, but LP was.


Same thin air I get LP from when completing any mission
J3ssica Biel
Caldari State
#2267 - 2012-06-23 10:11:52 UTC
Haifisch Zahne wrote:
Probably said somewhere in the depths of the prior 114 pages of posts, but...

You played right into CCP's hands!

At Fanfest, CCP stated it was there intent to reduce the rampant inflation by:

* Removing ISK from the game using the established ISK sinks. DONE. You Goons fed CCP's ISK sinks with market orders fees, and, I imagine, as partial payment for those LP store purchases.

Good job, Goons. You played into CCP's hands. You reduced inflation, AND MADE YOUR INVESTMENT WORTH LESS.


* You have successfully flooded the market with Goods. Less ISK, more Goods. You Goons have played into CCP's (unmentioned) goal to increase Goods (to bolster the other half of the Eve Balance Sheet) in order to reduce rampant inflation. (By the looks of it, you exchanged worthless Goods for high-value Goods, at a marginal cost. And, you Goons destroyed vast mineral reserves, another CCP goal.) Just as we saw a huge drop in prices on skill books and the other items *given away by CCP* for the 9th anniversary of Eve, we shall be able to mark this day, Goon's Fool Day, as the day that prices plummeted in Eve, making your investment worth less.

Good job, Goons. You played into CCP's hands. You reduced inflation, AND MADE YOUR INVESTMENT WORTH LESS.

* Simply on the face of it, you paid less for the items than the general market rate. This is, by very definition, deflation.


Good job, Goons.

(But, no, really, good job. Excellent gaming the system. Just too bad you PLAYED INTO CCP's HANDS AND MADE YOUR INVESTMENT WORTH LESS.)

Tinfoil Hat
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#2268 - 2012-06-23 10:19:03 UTC
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,


At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. Don’t be That Guy.



By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.



Serious question Sreegs, is this kind of thing actually cheating ? (ie against the rules) I read their document a couple of nights ago and though sure it really did blow massive holes through the eve game mechanics in order to make a giant profit - was it actually illegal ?




yes. exploit is exploit. ISK may not have been created from thin air, but LP was.


Same thin air I get LP from when completing any mission


Not quite. The exploit is database manipulation if you read the OP. Basically, they inflated the database value of a bunch of items and/or ships that were infrequently purchased or used, then had them blown up and calculated for LP based on the inflated database value of the items/ships.

That's LP rom nothing. Not the same as LP rewards from missions and the like which are calculated based on set amounts from a table.

tl;dr:

Create a fake database value to be used in FW LP reward calculation for ship kills, then go inject fake database number into calculation for LP by killing a ship with fake database number in cargo or as ship. Sell LP and Profit.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2269 - 2012-06-23 10:28:41 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
inject


That's a pretty loaded word there!

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Doc Mulder
Doomheim
#2270 - 2012-06-23 10:30:47 UTC
cool story bro.

Whatever...

If someone really has 300 trillion ISK they made from this I would think they would become bored shitless. No more challenges in game...
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2271 - 2012-06-23 10:31:50 UTC
Doc Mulder wrote:
cool story bro.

Whatever...

If someone really has 300 trillion ISK they made from this I would think they would become bored shitless. No more challenges in game...


Where do people keep getting these numbers?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#2272 - 2012-06-23 10:59:45 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Doc Mulder wrote:
cool story bro.

Whatever...

If someone really has 300 trillion ISK they made from this I would think they would become bored shitless. No more challenges in game...


Where do people keep getting these numbers?


beginning of the thread somewhere ...

Tal


Bolow Santosi
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2273 - 2012-06-23 11:06:27 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:


Create a fake database value to be used in FW LP reward calculation for ship kills, then go inject fake database number into calculation for LP by killing a ship with fake database number in cargo or as ship. Sell LP and Profit.


They never created a fake database value. They inflated slow moving/stagnant items and manipulated them to be significantly higher so they could generate LP more efficiently and effectively. Nothing about that is fake.
Tergerom Loregeron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2274 - 2012-06-23 11:10:55 UTC
Cordata Jomar wrote:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvisir.is%2Fmisnotudu-glufu-i-eve-online---hognudust-um-21-milljon-isk-i-leiknum%2Farticle%2F2012120629638&act=url

I'm just going to leave this here.
However, let me leave you a quick TL:DR, for those of you too lazy to actually expend the effort of clicking on a link.

Quote:
pétur aka CCP Xhagen says. "Technically speaking, they were not doing anything that was forbidden. Thus, it is unclear what will be done."


So which side is really representative for CCP? The head or the ass? Seems to me that the ass is winning this time around, and we all know the ass doesn't have any brains.
Saturn Boomer
#2275 - 2012-06-23 11:38:54 UTC
And there was me thinking I was a money making genius. I got nothing on this guy.

I tip my hat to you sir.

-Boomer

Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.  
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
#2276 - 2012-06-23 11:52:40 UTC
Entirely CCPs fault. Good to see all the goon haters spewing fake indignation and calling for bans though.
Monita Fea
Sanguine Enteprises
#2277 - 2012-06-23 12:06:45 UTC
Simply brilliant!

PS Send me moneyz plz, i'm poor :(
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2278 - 2012-06-23 12:37:40 UTC
Haifisch Zahne wrote:
Probably said somewhere in the depths of the prior 114 pages of posts, but...

You played right into CCP's hands!

At Fanfest, CCP stated it was there intent to reduce the rampant inflation by:

* Removing ISK from the game using the established ISK sinks. DONE. You Goons fed CCP's ISK sinks with market orders fees, and, I imagine, as partial payment for those LP store purchases.

Good job, Goons. You played into CCP's hands. You reduced inflation, AND MADE YOUR INVESTMENT WORTH LESS.


* You have successfully flooded the market with Goods. Less ISK, more Goods. You Goons have played into CCP's (unmentioned) goal to increase Goods (to bolster the other half of the Eve Balance Sheet) in order to reduce rampant inflation. (By the looks of it, you exchanged worthless Goods for high-value Goods, at a marginal cost. And, you Goons destroyed vast mineral reserves, another CCP goal.) Just as we saw a huge drop in prices on skill books and the other items *given away by CCP* for the 9th anniversary of Eve, we shall be able to mark this day, Goon's Fool Day, as the day that prices plummeted in Eve, making your investment worth less.

Good job, Goons. You played into CCP's hands. You reduced inflation, AND MADE YOUR INVESTMENT WORTH LESS.

* Simply on the face of it, you paid less for the items than the general market rate. This is, by very definition, deflation.


Good job, Goons.

(But, no, really, good job. Excellent gaming the system. Just too bad you PLAYED INTO CCP's HANDS AND MADE YOUR INVESTMENT WORTH LESS.)


I'm worried, though, do you think they played into CCP's hands?

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
CruxArc
Black Souls Industries
#2279 - 2012-06-23 12:56:15 UTC
Before Inferno FW was a joke, now it's a SAD joke Ugh
(sarcasm) Good job CCP!
CruxArc- ex amarr Oops
Tomytronic
Perkone
Caldari State
#2280 - 2012-06-23 13:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomytronic
CCP really need their PR people to have a word with their developers and mods and tell them that knee-jerk reactions and vindictive posting are more likely to generate negative press and inflict damage on the company's reputation than measured, considered and respectful responses.

Or hell, perhaps CCP just need some PR people in the first place; it's blindingly obvious that they don't know how to manage their game and don't know how to manage expectations and reactions in the outside world.

But continue blaming the players for mistakes you made CCP. I'm sure your reputation as hands-off-developers who let the players dictate the content will last into perpetuity, no matter how reactionary your responses are.