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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

First post First post First post
Author
Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1961 - 2012-06-23 02:22:48 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Paint wrote:

Oh I am sure right? If only I knew how critical you were/are to Goonswarm. I better show some serious respect right away!


Paint, the point was this toon goes back to 2004, not 2008. ATM goons are not in my list of clients.

and I doubt you'd know what respect was if it bit you on the ass. I could be Mittens alt and you'd still be an *******.


True you've been in so many corps I had to click the button. Still though you need another year and 6 months to hit the 9 year mark. So you don't even know your own history.
Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1962 - 2012-06-23 02:24:04 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Xython wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
they didn't help them fix the bug. they helped their wallets with the bug until ccp fixed it. there is a difference.


So the only people allowed to make bug reports are those willing to fly to Iceland and donate their time as computer programmers?

You make less and less sense the more you talk, PrONEncess Alia.


You do know its possible to report a bug without spending a month on a grand james bond villain-esq plan to exploit the bug and announce how incredibly clever you were for exploiting it on the eve online forums right ?

Just checking.


It was reported, even funnier you apparently knew about it before it was reported here and didn't report it either.

Good job!
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1963 - 2012-06-23 02:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Paint wrote:

True you've been in so many corps I had to click the button. Still though you need another year and 6 months to hit the 9 year mark. So you don't even know your own history.


Never said this was my main. Just that this toon goes back further then you said. You're so hot to try and score points on me you're starting to make this easy.
gulftobay
Mesotopia
#1964 - 2012-06-23 02:26:36 UTC
Almost 100 pages, gsf overlord statement in works per pcgamer, gets popcorn.
No More Heroes
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#1965 - 2012-06-23 02:26:53 UTC
Paint wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Xython wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
they didn't help them fix the bug. they helped their wallets with the bug until ccp fixed it. there is a difference.


So the only people allowed to make bug reports are those willing to fly to Iceland and donate their time as computer programmers?

You make less and less sense the more you talk, PrONEncess Alia.


You do know its possible to report a bug without spending a month on a grand james bond villain-esq plan to exploit the bug and announce how incredibly clever you were for exploiting it on the eve online forums right ?

Just checking.


It was reported, even funnier you apparently knew about it before it was reported here and didn't report it either.

Good job!


And had no problem making billions on it either. If a pillar of righteousness and space honour like Jade Constantine used the same methods prescribed by Aryth, no crimes were committed. If the glove doesn't fit- you must aquit.

.

Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1966 - 2012-06-23 02:28:34 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Paint wrote:

True you've been in so many corps I had to click the button. Still though you need another year and 6 months to hit the 9 year mark. So you don't even know your own history.


Never said this was my main. Just that this toon goes back further then you said. You're so hot to try and score points on my you're starting to make this easy.


I already stipulated that I realized that this wasn't your main. I am not "scoring points" your posts are really funny. I am hoping you will post some more details about your critical contributions to the success of Goonswarm. Should be good!
A'lan Wolf
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1967 - 2012-06-23 02:28:49 UTC
Whats really funny to me, is that none of this affected me one iota, i may never reach the dizzy heights in regards to isk that these players do, but i dont care..people in goonland seem to think everything they do affects everyone, well..newsflash..it doesnt..

just a little comment from someone who was oblivious to whatevere machinations you were up to..oblivious and untouchedLol
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1968 - 2012-06-23 02:28:57 UTC
gulftobay wrote:
Almost 100 pages, gsf overlord statement in works per pcgamer, gets popcorn.



It will be an interesting song and dance. I mean, seriously, CCP will look like morons if the same alliance they allowed to publicly humiliate them at Fan Fest also turns around and uses an exploit to break the game without doing anything about it.
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1969 - 2012-06-23 02:29:00 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
When the sandbox collides with making a fool of the developer, guess which side of that will win? Most people don't thank you when you embarrass them publicly. So you reap your just reward. Too bad.


The intention was never to embarrass them. It was content. I don't know why so many are spinning it that way. Burn Jita was content and we inflicted mass suffering upon the market and others. This was much the same, except directly on the markets.



So posting a short story about how you outsmarted the system, and then continued to abuse a system that wasn't intended to work the way it did isn't supposed to be a slap in CCP's face? All you guys have been doing prior to your assets being removed (if that even happened) was gloating about how the goons do this and the goons do that and how great you all believe yourselves to be. As soon as you supposedly started getting assets removed you start bitching and moaning like little kids who got put in the time out corner for pissing in the middle of a crowded room. Then we hear murmurs of how you will extract your revenge on the rest of Eve "again".

Burn Jita did just about **** all to the markets, and from my understanding, didn't really "inflict mass suffering" on anyone other than yourselves. People knew it was happening so they avoided the system for the most part. You just wasted a large portion of time because you threw a temper tantrum over Mittani getting a slap on the wrist for trying to coax everyone to get a guy to kill himself.

I swear every time you guys pull some kind of ridiculousness you just make yourselves look worse and worse by spouting off how great you are. Then when you start complaining when things don't go your way it is someone else's fault, and you have some how been wronged.

It is rather entertaining.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1970 - 2012-06-23 02:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Paint wrote:

I already stipulated that I realized that this wasn't your main. I am not "scoring points" your posts are really funny. I am hoping you will post some more details about your critical contributions to the success of Goonswarm. Should be good!


As I said, I put your allies back in ships. And when they became your enemies, I put them back in ships then too.

The only people critical to goons success are the CCP GMs that have otherwise failed to act time and time again for fear of you all mass quitting under the increasingly dubious excuse of EvE being a sandbox.


Edit:

Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:

Burn Jita did just about **** all to the markets, and from my understanding, didn't really "inflict mass suffering" on anyone other than yourselves. People knew it was happening so they avoided the system for the most part. You just wasted a large portion of time because you threw a temper tantrum over Mittani getting a slap on the wrist for trying to coax everyone to get a guy to kill himself.


Yeah, they killed fifty freighters over a period of several days. I noticed that quite a few of them stopped posting when I pointed out that was a tiny fraction of Jita's usual daily traffic, and most people just went around.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#1971 - 2012-06-23 02:34:29 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

save the crying for when they don't give stuff back they should have. until then, they probably will return unrelated stuff



Given CCP's past trackrecord of false positives for RMT, and now taking assets that had nothing to do with FW because they were the same asset type, well, I don't have a lot of faith in their ability to do anything of the sort.

The greater issue is. This means combining mechanics in EVE to an unforseen outcome is an exploit. Forget the ISK for a second. This means EVE is not the EVE we thought it was. Read the thread, many people feel this is well within the mechanics. I would say most have voiced their support. If it's such a grey area, that the majority of people believe it to be legit, for CCP to do something like this is chilling indeed.

I respect their right to maintain the sandbox. But my personal opinion is they are not the same company they were. This was well within bounds. That is a sad thing for EVE.



To be honest Aryth. I said I thought your market manipulation to game the value of lp-derived items on the lp payout for ship kill was pretty imaginative stuff (selling low valued nonsense commodities to each other to make the average price go up). I applauded the creativity really - but I think we both know that kind of thing can't stand on the scale you did it on - the integrity of the game universe for everyone else is important - and there is a default unwitten rule of any game (that even transcends the eula) "don't take the ****."

In addition, I think you stretched things beyond breaking with the double-counting of LP (getting awarded kill lp for stuff that dropped as cargo so you could do it again) - regardless of how much lp that actually created there is a principle there that it was clearly dodgy.

And arguably if you did use a G15/19 style keyboard to automate the collection of items from the loyalty point store thats also effectively cheating by the rules of the game (certainly by my interpretation of the gm decisions on macro programming keyboards).

I think threatening CCP with bad publicity (viral bad vibes) etc at this point won't do you guys any good at all. Public opinion is always fascinated by scandal and heists like this - but sympathy never really lasts for people who effectively cheated at the game (on the assumption thats the judgement of course.)

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

DeathBeforeDishonour
Mercenaries of Mayhem
#1972 - 2012-06-23 02:36:36 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

Hey you have just to watch the fanfest videos to realize that what I say is true.
In CCP Sreegs eyes a botter, a cheater a RMTer and an exploiter are all the same cockroach to crush.


But I guess in CCP's eyes, sitting in Jita running spam/market bots and scamming people all day is acceptable (and apparently exploiting things like the "Margin Trading" mechanic is OK as well).

Guess it depends on whether or not CCP (or their player alts) are making isk off of the "broken" mechanics themselves. Roll
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#1973 - 2012-06-23 02:37:47 UTC
Paint wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Xython wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
they didn't help them fix the bug. they helped their wallets with the bug until ccp fixed it. there is a difference.


So the only people allowed to make bug reports are those willing to fly to Iceland and donate their time as computer programmers?

You make less and less sense the more you talk, PrONEncess Alia.


You do know its possible to report a bug without spending a month on a grand james bond villain-esq plan to exploit the bug and announce how incredibly clever you were for exploiting it on the eve online forums right ?

Just checking.


It was reported, even funnier you apparently knew about it before it was reported here and didn't report it either.

Good job!


You chaps really need to learn to follow the sequence of events. Arth tweeted his plan at CCP Punkaris. Everyone else who got an early sight of the document saw it at that point. Of course the heroic comrades of the TLF had made their cash-outs completely oblivious to these shennanigans some days before on saturday afternoon when they traded their legally-obtained LP's favourably on the tier 5 LP store. All in all you could call it a happy coincidence.


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1974 - 2012-06-23 02:39:56 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Paint wrote:

I already stipulated that I realized that this wasn't your main. I am not "scoring points" your posts are really funny. I am hoping you will post some more details about your critical contributions to the success of Goonswarm. Should be good!


As I said, I put your allies back in ships. And when they became your enemies, I put them back in ships then too.

The only people critical to goons success are the CCP GMs that have otherwise failed to act time and time again for fear of you all mass quitting under the increasingly dubious excuse of EvE being a sandbox.


Edit:

Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:

Burn Jita did just about **** all to the markets, and from my understanding, didn't really "inflict mass suffering" on anyone other than yourselves. People knew it was happening so they avoided the system for the most part. You just wasted a large portion of time because you threw a temper tantrum over Mittani getting a slap on the wrist for trying to coax everyone to get a guy to kill himself.


Yeah, they killed fifty freighters over a period of several days. I noticed that quite a few of them stopped posting when I pointed out that was a tiny fraction of Jita's usual daily traffic, and most people just went around.


So was this when you were in the corp powerhouses "Ninjitsu Heavy Industries" or perhaps it was when you were in the famous corp "The Eiken Club" or perhaps I am confused and it was when you were in "Ninjitsu Incorporated"?

I guess I better be careful here. Not only am I messing with a puppetmaster who has saved goonswarm time and again, but also you are apparently a skilled Ninja!
ashley Eoner
#1975 - 2012-06-23 02:43:01 UTC
This thread is full of hilarity. Never before have I seen so many goon tears..
Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1976 - 2012-06-23 02:43:48 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
This thread is full of hilarity. Never before have I seen so many goon tears..


Are you also a ninja? You look kinda like a ninja?
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#1977 - 2012-06-23 02:45:30 UTC
Aryth wrote:

I dunno, I think I am pretty calm considering i just watched trillions of ISK go poof from my characters. Beyond even what was involved in FW. But lots of drinking and speeches will probably mean I come back to a devblog at least.

Just virtual cash, no matter the yak about so many ISK being worth so many RL dollars/euros. On the (far in the future, ofc) day that CCP inevitably shuts down the Eve servers for good, it will all vanish into the nothingness from whence it came. Keep your health - it is worth far more.

As for the eventual response from CCP Sreegs.... based on what's happened thus far, in all likelihood, you aren't going to like it, nor agree with it. But, I think you know that arguing with (or complaining about) Sreegs, after a decision has been made, is somewhat counter-productive.

I'd advise just to roll with it, shrug your shoulders, and move on. Others, who have nothing better to do with their time, will gladly keep the issue, and any necessary outrage, alive on the forums and blogs on your behalf.
Luis Graca
#1978 - 2012-06-23 02:47:25 UTC
Big smile 100 pages of pure crap
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1979 - 2012-06-23 02:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Paint wrote:

So was this when you were in the corp powerhouses "Ninjitsu Heavy Industries" or perhaps it was when you were in the famous corp "The Eiken Club" or perhaps I am confused and it was when you were in "Ninjitsu Incorporated"?

I guess I better be careful here. Not only am I messing with a puppetmaster who has saved goonswarm time and again, but also you are apparently a skilled Ninja!


We are the shadow that comes by night and builds your house.


Ninjitsu in it's various incarnations, rolled slightly over 100 cap ships, and nearly 1k HACs in addition to our Tech II munitions lines and happily delivered to any system in eve if the price was right. Most of us have since left eve.

And, you must not notice the theme in my corp names.


ashley Eoner wrote:
This thread is full of hilarity. Never before have I seen so many goon tears..



I know, right? Paint keeps trying, but s(he) just keeps sounding desperate.
Paint
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1980 - 2012-06-23 02:53:38 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Paint wrote:

So was this when you were in the corp powerhouses "Ninjitsu Heavy Industries" or perhaps it was when you were in the famous corp "The Eiken Club" or perhaps I am confused and it was when you were in "Ninjitsu Incorporated"?

I guess I better be careful here. Not only am I messing with a puppetmaster who has saved goonswarm time and again, but also you are apparently a skilled Ninja!


We are the shadow that comes by night and builds your house.


Ninjitsu in it's various incarnations, rolled slightly over 100 cap ships, and nearly 1k HACs in addition to our Tech II munitions lines and happily delivered to any system in eve if the price was right. Most of us have since left eve.

And, you must not notice the theme in my corp names.


ashley Eoner wrote:
This thread is full of hilarity. Never before have I seen so many goon tears..



I know, right? Paint keeps trying, but s(he) just keeps sounding desperate.



Oh I noticed, that was the point. Perhaps you could make a new corp "MIGHTY SUPERNINJAS.DOT"