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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1861 - 2012-06-23 00:26:59 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It was working as intended until ... well, we can see what happened. Then it became unintended.

That happens when you play with fire.


I wouldn't really call 5T a fire. More like a BIC lighter.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#1862 - 2012-06-23 00:27:07 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,


At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. Don’t be That Guy.



By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.



So you screwed up and now you're retaliating? Nice!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#1863 - 2012-06-23 00:28:04 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It was working as intended until ... well, we can see what happened. Then it became unintended.

That happens when you play with fire.


I wouldn't really call 5T a fire. More like a BIC lighter.

Sure burns?

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Burzrujat
XieDu Fleet
#1864 - 2012-06-23 00:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Burzrujat
Well I guess I'll post my opinion also, seeing as all the cool kids are doing it.

This was a clever scheme and it has been entertaining to spectate, however I don't think the unintended effects of the LP changes should of been abused for personal profit. And hey, you were successful in your apparent goal to create content, so you should be pleased. If your goal was to create content, you should not be so upset over losing the ISK/Assets. If your plan was to profit from it and then later post a sickening gloat thread and wave your e-peen around while CCP congratulated you on exploiting unintended effects of a poorly designed mechanic... well I can see why you would be upset over the outcome.

Thanks for the entertainment though. Blink
Nicholas Tong
Doomheim
#1865 - 2012-06-23 00:30:19 UTC
Good read, I almost Snip. Don't use ethnic stereotype slurs. -Guard bal myself from laughing.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1866 - 2012-06-23 00:30:54 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,


At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. Don’t be That Guy.



By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.



So you screwed up and now you're retaliating? Nice!

Going back to the analogy, when a bank makes a mistake do the just write it off? No, they go after the money wherever it went, and after the person should it have been spent and not able to be returned. How would this be any different?
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1867 - 2012-06-23 00:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Enaris Kerle
Burzrujat wrote:
Well I guess I'll post my opinion also, seeing as all the cool kids are doing it.

This was a clever scheme and it has been entertaining to spectate, however I don't think the unintended effects of the LP changes should of been abused for personal profit. And hey, you were successful in your apparent goal to create content, so you should be pleased. If your goal was to create content, you should not be so upset over losing the ISK. If your plan was to profit from it and then later post a sickening gloat thread and wave your e-peen around while CCP congratulated you on exploiting unintended effects of a poorly designed mechanic... well I can see why you would be upset over the outcome.

Thanks for the entertainment though. Blink

If you read what the people who were involved actually posted, they aren't upset about losing the ISK they made from the alleged FW exploit, they're upset that CCP went at it in the most hamfisted way and just nuked everything that looked like it MIGHT have come from the LP store, regardless how it was acquired.

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#1868 - 2012-06-23 00:31:23 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Aryth wrote:
The intention was never to embarrass them. It was content. I don't know why so many are spinning it that way. Burn Jita was content and we inflicted mass suffering upon the market and others. This was much the same, except directly on the markets.
So what have CCP done to you so far?


Seized anything remotely LP store relayed. Zeroed out LP stores. Even though some of the assets we had were of the same type. So they seized items not even related to the FW issue. To go further, they didn't even do it in a consistent manner, making it even wierder. I am not sure what the trigger was besides wealth confiscation.
This sandpit just - took a turn for the douche.

So blind anger and retribution for a flawed game mechanic they knew about. The dev post in this thread reminded my of the post Incarna lash out. An embarrassed CCP usually react in ways they soon regret.

I think it's clear what kind of theme park CCP want to run now.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#1869 - 2012-06-23 00:35:54 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:

If you read what the people who were involved actually posted, they aren't upset about losing the ISK they made from the alleged FW exploit, they're upset that CCP went at it in the most hamfisted way and just nuked everything that looked like it MIGHT have come from the LP store, regardless how it was acquired.

Then again, we have no proof anything was taken by CCP. All we have is the word of a player, and we all know not to trust anyone in Eve. Cool

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1870 - 2012-06-23 00:36:14 UTC
So, in other words, CCP Devs (goons) engineered a situation where Goons (not CCP) made an excessive **** ton of isk, and threatened to obliterate anything remotely resembling the market, and now CCP (not Goons) has come in, confiscated their toys, and slapped them on the wrist.

Mind you, again, if any player corp (not Goons) were to do this, the entire corp would get the ban hammer. But, as usual, goon shenanigans are 'Stop that 'wink wink nudge nudge'.

Let me ask the question that no one else will ask: What does goonswarm have to do to get banned? Shoot Hilmar's family? Blow up a major landmark and kill X hundred people? I mean, seriously, CCP, if any of the rest of us did half this ****, we'd be banned in a second.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1871 - 2012-06-23 00:36:49 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Aryth wrote:
The intention was never to embarrass them. It was content. I don't know why so many are spinning it that way. Burn Jita was content and we inflicted mass suffering upon the market and others. This was much the same, except directly on the markets.
So what have CCP done to you so far?


Seized anything remotely LP store relayed. Zeroed out LP stores. Even though some of the assets we had were of the same type. So they seized items not even related to the FW issue. To go further, they didn't even do it in a consistent manner, making it even wierder. I am not sure what the trigger was besides wealth confiscation.
This sandpit just - took a turn for the douche.

So blind anger and retribution for a flawed game mechanic they knew about. The dev post in this thread reminded my of the post Incarna lash out. An embarrassed CCP usually react in ways they soon regret.

I think it's clear what kind of theme park CCP want to run now.


That is what is the most troubling about this. No way I thought this was coming. This was way inbounds to us.

I will be attending a wedding tomorrow, so gone pretty much the entire day and most of Sunday. So I will follow the thread when I can, but am waiting to see what their devblog says. This runs contrary to everything we thought so I am very curious to see their official stance.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1872 - 2012-06-23 00:38:03 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
So, in other words, CCP Devs (goons) engineered a situation where Goons (not CCP) made an excessive **** ton of isk, and threatened to obliterate anything remotely resembling the market, and now CCP (not Goons) has come in, confiscated their toys, and slapped them on the wrist.

Mind you, again, if any player corp (not Goons) were to do this, the entire corp would get the ban hammer. But, as usual, goon shenanigans are 'Stop that 'wink wink nudge nudge'.

Oh so five or so people can get all of us banned.

I love the way you think, naughty naughty goons <3 <3

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1873 - 2012-06-23 00:38:20 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
So, in other words, CCP Devs (goons) engineered a situation where Goons (not CCP) made an excessive **** ton of isk, and threatened to obliterate anything remotely resembling the market, and now CCP (not Goons) has come in, confiscated their toys, and slapped them on the wrist.

Mind you, again, if any player corp (not Goons) were to do this, the entire corp would get the ban hammer. But, as usual, goon shenanigans are 'Stop that 'wink wink nudge nudge'.

Let me ask the question that no one else will ask: What does goonswarm have to do to get banned? Shoot Hilmar's family? Blow up a major landmark and kill X hundred people? I mean, seriously, CCP, if any of the rest of us did half this ****, we'd be banned in a second.

it's true, everyone who ever manipulated the market in EVE or made money from the PI changes or Pax Amarria got banned, and their entire corp too

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1874 - 2012-06-23 00:41:31 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
So, in other words, CCP Devs (goons) engineered a situation where Goons (not CCP) made an excessive **** ton of isk, and threatened to obliterate anything remotely resembling the market, and now CCP (not Goons) has come in, confiscated their toys, and slapped them on the wrist.

Mind you, again, if any player corp (not Goons) were to do this, the entire corp would get the ban hammer. But, as usual, goon shenanigans are 'Stop that 'wink wink nudge nudge'.

Let me ask the question that no one else will ask: What does goonswarm have to do to get banned? Shoot Hilmar's family? Blow up a major landmark and kill X hundred people? I mean, seriously, CCP, if any of the rest of us did half this ****, we'd be banned in a second.

it's true, everyone who ever manipulated the market in EVE or made money from the PI changes or Pax Amarria got banned, and their entire corp too


They took my PAX profits I rolled into it too! Oh the humanity

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1875 - 2012-06-23 00:41:55 UTC
Enaris Kerle wrote:
it's true, everyone who ever manipulated the market in EVE or made money from the PI changes or Pax Amarria got banned, and their entire corp too

Love me some Pax Amarria :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Preceptor Stigmartyr
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1876 - 2012-06-23 00:45:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Preceptor Stigmartyr
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
So, in other words, CCP Devs (goons) engineered a situation where Goons (not CCP) made an excessive **** ton of isk, and threatened to obliterate anything remotely resembling the market, and now CCP (not Goons) has come in, confiscated their toys, and slapped them on the wrist.

Mind you, again, if any player corp (not Goons) were to do this, the entire corp would get the ban hammer. But, as usual, goon shenanigans are 'Stop that 'wink wink nudge nudge'.

Let me ask the question that no one else will ask: What does goonswarm have to do to get banned? Shoot Hilmar's family? Blow up a major landmark and kill X hundred people? I mean, seriously, CCP, if any of the rest of us did half this ****, we'd be banned in a second.

it's true, everyone who ever manipulated the market in EVE or made money from the PI changes or Pax Amarria got banned, and their entire corp too


This.


Idea It seems less about Goon vs. CCP than us vs. them

"Them" being carebears who want Eve to be a galactic farmville. Either it's a sandbox or it isn't.

**4/19 **NEVER FORGET ಠ_ಠ
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1877 - 2012-06-23 00:48:34 UTC
Preceptor Stigmartyr wrote:
Enaris Kerle wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
So, in other words, CCP Devs (goons) engineered a situation where Goons (not CCP) made an excessive **** ton of isk, and threatened to obliterate anything remotely resembling the market, and now CCP (not Goons) has come in, confiscated their toys, and slapped them on the wrist.

Mind you, again, if any player corp (not Goons) were to do this, the entire corp would get the ban hammer. But, as usual, goon shenanigans are 'Stop that 'wink wink nudge nudge'.

Let me ask the question that no one else will ask: What does goonswarm have to do to get banned? Shoot Hilmar's family? Blow up a major landmark and kill X hundred people? I mean, seriously, CCP, if any of the rest of us did half this ****, we'd be banned in a second.

it's true, everyone who ever manipulated the market in EVE or made money from the PI changes or Pax Amarria got banned, and their entire corp too


This.


Idea It seems less about Goon vs. CCP than us vs. them

"Them" being carebears who want Eve to be a galactic farmville. Either it's a sandbox or it isn't.


Anyone who wants the sandbox to allow manipulation at this scale should be appalled at the direction this is heading. I want to wait for the CCP statement but this is looking very dark. Especially given this article

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=is&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvisir.is%2Fmisnotudu-glufu-i-eve-online---hognudust-um-21-milljon-isk-i-leiknum%2Farticle%2F2012120629638&act=url]

Where CCP basically states this is a-ok? Now I am even more confused

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#1878 - 2012-06-23 00:48:56 UTC
Preceptor Stigmartyr wrote:

"Them" being carebears who want Eve to be a galactic farmville. Either it's a sandbox or it isn't.



Oh, I'm sorry, maybe you missed the part where your alliance used the 'sandbox' as an excuse to effectively bring an end to the sandbox. Minor detail.
Enaris Kerle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1879 - 2012-06-23 00:51:51 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Oh, I'm sorry, maybe you missed the part where your alliance used the 'sandbox' as an excuse to effectively bring an end to the sandbox. Minor detail.

And this scheme broke the sandbox exactly how?

Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1880 - 2012-06-23 00:53:57 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Preceptor Stigmartyr wrote:

"Them" being carebears who want Eve to be a galactic farmville. Either it's a sandbox or it isn't.



Oh, I'm sorry, maybe you missed the part where your alliance used the 'sandbox' as an excuse to effectively bring an end to the sandbox. Minor detail.


We went out of our way to avoid that outcome.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.