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CCP Has Declared Themselves Anti-Sandbox

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#41 - 2012-06-23 00:01:36 UTC
Xython wrote:
So while CCP no doubt want to roll back the economy, nuke the wallets from orbit, etc... that really doesn't fit with the old CCP's corporate philosophy.

If they already are wanting to do that, I guess it's not the old CCP. But nevermind that ... let's see what happens.

At least it has livened up the forums.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#42 - 2012-06-23 00:08:38 UTC
Oh no, not the holy sandbox. Not THAT!

Seriously, even if you're right, that's just fine. The sandbox had to have a limit. Goonswarm has been pushing to find it for some time.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#43 - 2012-06-23 00:13:44 UTC
Wow I agree with goons and MNG in the same week! Life as we know is over!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-06-23 00:29:29 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
Not to date and there likely won't be until Monday at the earliest. The assets were frozen for the purpose of investigating. Not just seized, "just because".


If CCP follows through please organise an Incrna style revolt. Keeping the sandbox sandboxy is worth unsubbing in protest for.


Since when did so many people get such a confused understanding of what the term sandbox means??

It's like a revolt of confused zombie followers.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#45 - 2012-06-23 00:32:16 UTC
Who gives a damn about the facts, the sheer confusion about what the heck is/was happening is great.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#46 - 2012-06-23 00:46:34 UTC
Pretty much, CCP made a mistake (the implementation) and now they are overreacting slightly IMO to try to correct it.

But as many have said, there is an investigation so no point in rumoring it up.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#47 - 2012-06-23 00:48:59 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Pretty much, CCP made a mistake (the implementation) and now they are overreacting slightly IMO to try to correct it.

But as many have said, there is an investigation so no point in rumoring it up.

You'd think this would become the ideal starting point for the "permabanning rumors" thing.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
None ofthe Above
#48 - 2012-06-23 00:50:27 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
By interfering with the latest Goon project of using FW to farm LP, CCP has proven that they hate the sandbox.


Its not a sandpile, its a sandbox. You know, with the little walls around it?

All they did was spank the children that where kicking at the walls.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#49 - 2012-06-23 00:56:53 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:
Disagree. It just means when the sand falls out of the sandbox they like to put it back in. Fixing one area that can be abused does not mean the game is not a sandbox.

The uproar over this by a very small segment of the gaming population is hilarious.


You're assuming that this was a problem. It really wasn't. It was emergent gameplay.



Thats not what you said about the SF defensive wardec dogpile against the goons (a couple of days ago).

Surely that was emergent gameplay (and we didn't even have to break the rules to do it.)

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#50 - 2012-06-23 01:01:48 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Pretty much, CCP made a mistake (the implementation) and now they are overreacting slightly IMO to try to correct it.

But as many have said, there is an investigation so no point in rumoring it up.
CCP have already stated that the outcome of the investigation is pre-determined so I think saying it is "overreacting" doesn't need the "IMO" qualification.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#51 - 2012-06-23 01:07:41 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:
Disagree. It just means when the sand falls out of the sandbox they like to put it back in. Fixing one area that can be abused does not mean the game is not a sandbox.

The uproar over this by a very small segment of the gaming population is hilarious.


You're assuming that this was a problem. It really wasn't. It was emergent gameplay.



Thats not what you said about the SF defensive wardec dogpile against the goons (a couple of days ago).

Surely that was emergent gameplay (and we didn't even have to break the rules to do it.)


You mean the one that you keep insisting is being changed because of "Goon Tears" that you still can't prove? The one that we keep saying we would rather have the 1.0 system so we can lock you in a foreverwar with?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-06-23 01:07:47 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:
Disagree. It just means when the sand falls out of the sandbox they like to put it back in. Fixing one area that can be abused does not mean the game is not a sandbox.

The uproar over this by a very small segment of the gaming population is hilarious.


You're assuming that this was a problem. It really wasn't. It was emergent gameplay.



Thats not what you said about the SF defensive wardec dogpile against the goons (a couple of days ago).

Surely that was emergent gameplay (and we didn't even have to break the rules to do it.)


You openly said that you were going to abuse the new wardec mechanics, knowing it was an poorly implemented feature, and even included a pre-fab way out -- "If CCP stops us it's cause goonies cried". CCP saw what you were doing, stopped you, and sure as ****, "CCP stopped us cause goonies cried."

The difference between us and you is that we had the common decency to send CCP a letter saying "hey, look what we're doing, this is probably not intended, you should fix it."

Having said that, since you openly bragged about making nearly 9 billion ISK in the exact same thing the Goon Econ team was doing in that thread, I do wish to know: Has your account been nailed with any action yet? If so, my question then pivots to CCP: Why not?
Alara IonStorm
#53 - 2012-06-23 01:11:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Pretty much, CCP made a mistake (the implementation) and now they are overreacting slightly IMO to try to correct it.

But as many have said, there is an investigation so no point in rumoring it up.
CCP have already stated that the outcome of the investigation is pre-determined so I think saying it is "overreacting" doesn't need the "IMO" qualification.

CCP has always been against exploits and encouraged players to report anything they might think is an exploit before doing it.

Without naming perpetrators and describing hypothetical similar circumstances in any other game to the people who play that game and they will pretty much be unanimous in describing the events as an exploit of game mechanics.

EVE isn't a special snowflake. You can bet 10/1 that while the perpetrators were doing this they knew that it would be considered an exploit period.

Rules are rules and the rules are pretty clear here.
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#54 - 2012-06-23 01:12:09 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
By interfering with the latest Goon project of using FW to farm LP, CCP has proven that they hate the sandbox.


Its not a sandpile, its a sandbox. You know, with the little walls around it?

All they did was spank the children that where kicking at the walls.
I can't agree.

The walls of the sandbox is your subscription. Once you are in those walls, you are in.

CCP can change the amount of sand, the toys in the sand or the quality of the sand.

Once you are in there unless you are magically creating any of those things anything goes.

Why wasn't ISK made from insurance fraud confiscated?

Why wasn't ISK made from PAX reprocessing confiscated?

Simple, it's a sandbox.

Heck, CCP never removed the wealth created by T20's spawning of items in the sandbox.

CCP can change the mechanics as described above, but they can't punish for it, or you no longer have a sandbox.
Alara IonStorm
#55 - 2012-06-23 01:14:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Graic Gabtar wrote:
or you no longer have a sandbox.

Game is still non linear, open world.

Meets the qualifications of a sandbox since those are the only qualifications no matter what they do with the money.

Their is no connection between this and sandbox unless you start making up new definitions. Any other complaints about actions taken or not taken in the past is a case for bias to sure but that is something else.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-06-23 01:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mira Lynne
Space Mitt Romney wrote:
Gotta love when the goons screw something up, they tear up the most. Keep em coming..

Actually, most of the goon posts i've read regarding this are less teary and more 'regular person' (WHAT! In My EVE!?) than most posts by people like the OP.
Also - remember that this is CCPs sandbox (as someone said before sand BOX, not sand PILE) - you are just the cat's that defecate in it.
CCP Choses where to put the Walls, and if CCP wants to shift the sands in the box, its not your job to whine about it.

Edit:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
CCP can change the amount of sand, the toys in the sand or the quality of the sand.

Well put.
Not to give off the wrong Idea: I believe creativity like the goons just showed should be rewarded. That being said, its CCP's decision and theirs alone - whatever choice they make is the right choice, and the Cat Turds in the sandbox are going to have to either HTFU or make their own sandbox.

[u]I, too, horse frogs.[/u] Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#57 - 2012-06-23 01:20:13 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
or you no longer have a sandbox.

Game is still non linear, open world.

Meets the qualifications of a sandbox since those are the only qualifications no matter what they do with the money.

Their is no connection between this and sandbox unless you start making up new definitions. Any other complaints about actions taken or not taken in the past is a case for bias to sure but that is something else.



Eve online is not a sandbox because CCP scripts what is happening in a political sense. If CCP removes the goons legitimately earned isk through market manipulation then they are are in fact shaping the game as they see fit and not letting the game develop as a sandbox and all the bullsh1t advertising in the world won't cover the day eve sandbox died.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2012-06-23 01:22:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
masternerdguy wrote:
By interfering with the latest Goon project of using FW to farm LP, CCP has proven that they hate the sandbox.



You've got to be kidding. They have closed unintended loopholes and corrected exploitive actions in the past . I didn't hear you call them anti sandbox then....

are you a troll?

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Alara IonStorm
#59 - 2012-06-23 01:24:18 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

Eve online is not a sandbox because CCP scripts what is happening in a political sense. If CCP removes the goons legitimately earned isk through market manipulation then they are are in fact shaping the game as they see fit and not letting the game develop as a sandbox and all the bullsh1t advertising in the world won't cover the day eve sandbox died.

Again nothing to do with sandbox.

Non Linear, Open World. Nothing else.

Any other comments on the situation of what is and isn't against the rules. Either way they knew it wasn't manipulation but exploit of a broken feature. They said so themselves and didn't report it immediately but instead took advantage of it.

That is by CCP's long standing definition against the rules whether you like the rules or not.
None ofthe Above
#60 - 2012-06-23 01:25:59 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
By interfering with the latest Goon project of using FW to farm LP, CCP has proven that they hate the sandbox.


Its not a sandpile, its a sandbox. You know, with the little walls around it?

All they did was spank the children that where kicking at the walls.
I can't agree.

The walls of the sandbox is your subscription. Once you are in those walls, you are in.

CCP can change the amount of sand, the toys in the sand or the quality of the sand.

Once you are in there unless you are magically creating any of those things anything goes.

Why wasn't ISK made from insurance fraud confiscated?

Why wasn't ISK made from PAX reprocessing confiscated?

Simple, it's a sandbox.

Heck, CCP never removed the wealth created by T20's spawning of items in the sandbox.

CCP can change the mechanics as described above, but they can't punish for it, or you no longer have a sandbox.


You are entitled to your opinion.

I don't happen to agree with it. I think that CCP has GMs and a security team for a reason. They are the conservators of the sandbox and arbitrate its limits. I am sure they try to avoid stepping in, but do when they think they must.

BTW - Not that I am saying that has to do with the recent Goon activity, but your logic above could be used to defend botting, but I think that's clearly not allowed, nor should it be. So maybe the logic could use some refinement?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.