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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1361 - 2012-06-22 18:39:10 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Or are they to be ignored because they aren't cool and edgy trying to figure out ways to violate the EULA everyday?

The EULA wasn't violated.


Keep telling yourself that B team.
Inspiration
#1362 - 2012-06-22 18:39:35 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:

Stories of people able to completely own the game like this ARE why people join.


truth, it's why i joined the game.


Plenty more people will be disgusted by being cheated out and some of those will leave. I cant see your case as an argument to support scamming NPC and thereby making many other efforts in EVE pointless!

I am serious!

Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1363 - 2012-06-22 18:40:26 UTC
Kazini Jax wrote:
Well, that's it for me. You are a joke, CCP. There really is no point in playing a game that can be won by the person who has the most money to buy PLEX and turn it into ISK (I might as well play RL). But when incompetent programming and logic causes **** like this to repeatedly happen, **** it. No point.

Oh, and CCP, quit calling your joke a 'sandbox'. It MAY be a sandbox relative to other games out there, but a TRUE sandbox is a game where ONLY the physics of the universe is programmed into it. So to call this game a sandbox is a serious fail.. much like your programming!

Bye New Eden


You'll be back, and in the meantime would you like me to watch your valuables for you? In other words "stuff, can i haz?"

This is how I felt when T20 first came to light. Swore EvE off forever, yet, here I am and guess what, it still happening. Isn't it fun?!

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1364 - 2012-06-22 18:41:43 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:

No. Because Chribba didn't exploit the game to get his.

How about the scope of the LP/LP items gained vs the current market supply. The impact on hundreds if not thousands of missioners LP who actually played the game the way it's intended. Might that be worth discussing?

Or are they to be ignored because they aren't cool and edgy trying to figure out ways to violate the EULA everyday?

They didn't exploit to get theirs, either.

You can say they did all day long, but unless you can provide PROOF you may as well spend the same time farting on your keyboard.

At this point, all you are doing is going 'Is so is so!!!' like a 5 year old. At this point you need to provide your evidence that they did in fact exploit.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#1365 - 2012-06-22 18:42:00 UTC
I keep waiting for PA to explain how you can design a system specifically to work in a way other than intended.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1366 - 2012-06-22 18:42:25 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
However gaming the market to inflate values of items

Not an exploit.
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
then blowing up ships

Not an exploit.
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
to produce ungodly LP payouts

This is the system working as designed. It's a bad design, much like titans are wrt tracking, neutral logi alts, POS bowling, carriers filled with iterons stuffed full of stuff etc etc etc, and it's a design CCP is going to change.
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
This seems to be the point your goonwashed brain is hiding from you.

While you seem to have given in fully to your goon hate.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1367 - 2012-06-22 18:42:55 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Aryth wrote:
I don't think you understand Sreegs. There is no one quicker to f*** goons than Sreegs. He has also personally f'ed me in the past. Just sayin.

I don't know much about him, other than a bit of his history. I just didn't wanna look like an ******* by accusing him of going f***goons if he was still of relatively friendly terms Blink


If anything, I think he goes extra hard on us to avoid the appearance of favoritism. At least that is what I tell myself when staring at 25b hole in my wallet.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Imawuss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1368 - 2012-06-22 18:43:44 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Imawuss wrote:
People who think this was not an exploit or at the very least a bug are kidding themselves. If left in-game it would be game breaking. With the amount the goons took from this (i'm actually not sure on this but from hearsay i think a lot) it may already be game breaking though we will have to wait and see if CCP takes no retroactive steps.

To be fair though should anyone receive any punishment? I think not, just based on how EVE represents itself and the activities it promotes, but anyone thinking an unlimited isk faucet is not a bug/ exploit or game breaking is kidding themselves. The isk made must be taken back, otherwise the inflation that will incur will ruin this game for new players.

iirc, there is around 300 Trillion isk in EVE circulation. This was 5 trillion, or just over 1% of the total value of the game.

That should give some perspective on whether or not this is significant.

Oh, and there are people with considerably more than 1% of the total isk in EVE in their wallet, like Chribba. Is he breaking the game?


5 trillion (if that is the real number) made by ill-gotten means in a short period of time. It has taken EVE 9 years to accumulate 300 trillion in circulation, you just added 5 trillion in less than a month by only a select few. Using a system not as intended.
I'm sure that adding 1% of eves total wealth in such a short time to 1 alliance (the best troll alliance as well) and a select few will not have any negative affects at all...

Not sure why i'm discussing this as the money will soon be back in CCP's hands, if they don't it makes a for a very bad precedent, and will only further the goon/ccp conspiracies.
Pisov viet
Perkone
Caldari State
#1369 - 2012-06-22 18:43:58 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
I keep waiting for PA to explain how you can design a system specifically to work in a way other than intended.

Just like we wait for jade to tell us how LP create isk?
Zraheb Lee
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1370 - 2012-06-22 18:44:36 UTC
Since uh.. Since you guys have a ton of cash, mind if someone spots me about 1bil?

On a serious note. I think stuff like this is exactly what Eve Online is all about. You guys gamed the system, manipulated factional warfare, and came out on top. CCP even benefits from all of this. Why? Because they learn from this experience and evolve this ever changing game a little more.

Everyone say: Happy Birthday Zraheb Lee! I turned 31 today (yay).
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#1371 - 2012-06-22 18:45:28 UTC
Quote:
This isn't as cut and dried as it may seem at first blush.


Quote:
No, but when you put the two together all of a sudden you have CCP releasing security statements.

You can't really spin the illegitimacy by pointing out the simple seemingly legit stepstaken to get there.

No one issues security statements when I shoot a blue or kill a war target because I was playing the game, not finding exploits.


If CCP in a fit of insanity modified the bounty system so that the payout for a bounty was doubled if the target was a war target of yours, and so you start a war with one of your own alts and energetically start doubling your money by setting bounties and blowing him up repeatedly, you are not exploiting the system.

All you would be doing is making legitimate use of a very poorly thought out game mechanic.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Inspiration
#1372 - 2012-06-22 18:45:35 UTC
I wonder if the EULA mentions anything about cheating NPC...which is what happened in this case. The same could theoretically be done with insurance, be it that those are based on mineral value and that is not a small market you can over time just set the price without anyone noticing it.

I am serious!

Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1373 - 2012-06-22 18:45:56 UTC
Imawuss wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Imawuss wrote:
People who think this was not an exploit or at the very least a bug are kidding themselves. If left in-game it would be game breaking. With the amount the goons took from this (i'm actually not sure on this but from hearsay i think a lot) it may already be game breaking though we will have to wait and see if CCP takes no retroactive steps.

To be fair though should anyone receive any punishment? I think not, just based on how EVE represents itself and the activities it promotes, but anyone thinking an unlimited isk faucet is not a bug/ exploit or game breaking is kidding themselves. The isk made must be taken back, otherwise the inflation that will incur will ruin this game for new players.

iirc, there is around 300 Trillion isk in EVE circulation. This was 5 trillion, or just over 1% of the total value of the game.

That should give some perspective on whether or not this is significant.

Oh, and there are people with considerably more than 1% of the total isk in EVE in their wallet, like Chribba. Is he breaking the game?


5 trillion (if that is the real number) made by ill-gotten means in a short period of time. It has taken EVE 9 years to accumulate 300 trillion in circulation, you just added 5 trillion in less than a month by only a select few. Using a system not as intended.
I'm sure that adding 1% of eves total wealth in such a short time to 1 alliance (the best troll alliance as well) and a select few will not have any negative affects at all...

Not sure why i'm discussing this as the money will soon be back in CCP's hands, if they don't it makes a for a very bad precedent, and will only further the goon/ccp conspiracies.


You clearly don't understand the thread if you think we added or have 5T liquid ISK from this.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1374 - 2012-06-22 18:46:28 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
However gaming the market to inflate values of items

Not an exploit.
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
then blowing up ships

Not an exploit.
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
to produce ungodly LP payouts

This is the system working as designed. It's a bad design, much like titans are wrt tracking, neutral logi alts, POS bowling, carriers filled with iterons stuffed full of stuff etc etc etc, and it's a design CCP is going to change.
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
This seems to be the point your goonwashed brain is hiding from you.

While you seem to have given in fully to your goon hate.


"If I keep pointing out the simple steps taken to perform teh exploit it will magically not be an exploit anymore."
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1375 - 2012-06-22 18:46:37 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Aryth wrote:
I don't think you understand Sreegs. There is no one quicker to f*** goons than Sreegs. He has also personally f'ed me in the past. Just sayin.

I don't know much about him, other than a bit of his history. I just didn't wanna look like an ******* by accusing him of going f***goons if he was still of relatively friendly terms Blink


If anything, I think he goes extra hard on us to avoid the appearance of favoritism. At least that is what I tell myself when staring at 25b hole in my wallet.

Thats exactly what I was trying to say originally, lol.

Back when he first started there were alot of accusations that he was gonna go T20 and give goons the game.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#1376 - 2012-06-22 18:47:59 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
This isn't as cut and dried as it may seem at first blush.


Quote:
No, but when you put the two together all of a sudden you have CCP releasing security statements.

You can't really spin the illegitimacy by pointing out the simple seemingly legit stepstaken to get there.

No one issues security statements when I shoot a blue or kill a war target because I was playing the game, not finding exploits.


If CCP in a fit of insanity modified the bounty system so that the payout for a bounty was doubled if the target was a war target of yours, and so you start a war with one of your own alts and energetically start doubling your money by setting bounties and blowing him up repeatedly, you are not exploiting the system.

All you would be doing is making legitimate use of a very poorly thought out game mechanic.



Lol, that sounds pretty exploity to me.

Do that for 12 hrs, rake in a few hundred billion and then sit back and talk about how legit it all was until you log in with a negative wallet balance. You wouldn't be the first.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1377 - 2012-06-22 18:48:10 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
I wonder if the EULA mentions anything about cheating NPC...which is what happened in this case. The same could theoretically be done with insurance, be it that those are based on mineral value and that is not a small market you can over time just set the price without anyone noticing it.

oooo.... I see a way to finally make use of the EAS.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#1378 - 2012-06-22 18:49:15 UTC
good ... i knew it !!Shocked

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#1379 - 2012-06-22 18:50:19 UTC
Pisov viet wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
I keep waiting for PA to explain how you can design a system specifically to work in a way other than intended.

Just like we wait for jade to tell us how LP create isk?


You will need to link me to the post where I said that.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1380 - 2012-06-22 18:50:46 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
I wonder if the EULA mentions anything about cheating NPC...which is what happened in this case. The same could theoretically be done with insurance, be it that those are based on mineral value and that is not a small market you can over time just set the price without anyone noticing it.

oooo.... I see a way to finally make use of the EAS.


It was done with insurance for months in the past. Insurance Fraud on a huge scale occurred for many months when mineral prices were lower than CCP payouts. So there is definitely some precedent for this.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.