Player Features and Ideas Discussion

There used to be a trick to cyno in a ship directly into a POS's shields. This was remedied, such that cynoing a ship too close to the shields resulted in the cynoing-in ship manifesting 15 km's from the POS shield, or some such.

What if all cyno's were similarly "fixed," such that it's not possible to cyno within dock range of a station, jump range of a gate, nor overtly close to a POS's shields.

CONS:
This would slow down logistics (to which I must profusely appologize to the under-appreciated workhorse of EvE).
This would make logistics operations significantly less safe, but still very manageable!!!

PROS:
This would make logistics operations SIGNFICANTLY less safe, but still very manageable!!!
In NPC space (nullsec & lowsec), the locals actually make it even more difficult for another entity to move in...


The real question, why is this needed??

At the moment, it is extremely easy to move good's to and from Highsec to anywhere in nullsec. Cyno mechanics, when done proficiently, remove almost all risk in moving (dockable) capitals. The goal of this change, is to subtly nerf the jump mechanic in a manner that doesn't BREAK them, but adds a reasonable risk to this mostly riskless form of travel.

I look forward to comments as to why this is not needed, how this will adversely alter the game, any supporting comments, etc...

While this might cause a marginal increase in t2 prices, I see no reason why it would be "massive." I think the only significant disruption in moongoo will involve lowsec moongoo operations that are so far from their alliances center of operations that they can't adequately protect a JF every few weeks.... and OMG, what a travesty that would be!!! I'm sure every competent alliance will adapt, and the incompetent will lose out (as it should be).

And yes... I expect you to have safe towers along your cyno routes, to have an escort fleet, or to take a risk.... I know, actually having risk when performing logistics in nullsec and lowsec might leave a bad taste in your mouth, but it's certainly not out-of-line!! This change does NOT leave jump logistics unfairly vulnerable. Safe cynoing practices can easily mitigate many of the risks to your ships...


Truth be told, it's the increased risks to Black Frog Operations that bother me the most. I do not want to undermine their operations to the point they go out of business.... and wonder if they feel like they could still operate with these new changes! I'm sure this would eliminate their operations to/from certain nullsec areas where blue on blue hostility is common, but those alliances can reap what they sow..

Not for nothing, but if you are using ships valued up to several billion ISK, and putting expensive cargo into them...

Why do you find it so off putting to get an escort? Isn't the value of your effort worthy of support?

I see a lot of people have read this, but don't see a lot of replies.... I'm beginning to suspect this is one of those ideas that isn't broken or flawed, but rather something that people don't want to rally behind because it painful.

Remind me, in a ~pure PvP~ sand box MMO, why do we need invulnerable logistics chains?

As for this idea, it isn't bad but it needs some work. As an above poster pointed out it will probably just result in POSes being set up along the route. Or, more likely IMHO, people just won't cyno in unless a system is more or less empty.

Then enlighten me, how do you kill JFs?

Excluding Garmon's trick with webs, which was deemed an exploit and patched in <24 hours.

Heh, I honestly never realised people were stupid enough to use cyno generators without scouting/checking in their Intel channel. That's pretty funny.

But yeah, jumping in supers unsupported on top of a hostile POS, right next to a hostile cyno generator isn't something I'd do often. Sounds like a good way to lose supers.

Nonhighsec markets don't need another nerf just so you can pad your kb.

its funny that the ppl that want to kill jf's are not the ones usualy living in 0.0. try doing logistics for an active corp that is in a alliance that is in war. Its a ***** to do and rly time consuming.... You might think its easy but try living in area's futher away that 1 - 2 jumps from the nearest high sec. Try living in esoteria for example.... you need to move stuff from jita to nearest jump off point (30 odd jumps), than 4 -5 cyno's..... not all in blue space...

you just want to have easy ganks for your personal griefing fun, try being a logistic operator and you talk other ways...

I've lived in nullsec for the last several years... Both in Highsec border regions like curse, provi, and syndicate, as well as deeper nullsec regions like Venal. I understand that logistics are a PITA, are underappreciated, and can easily suck the desire to play from you!!! I fully admit this makes logistics more dangerous... but it should be more dangerous.

This isn't about killboard padding.... this is about balancing the risks of travel!!!!

Let's review the risks of cyno travel:
a.) You undock and wait out a 10 seconds session change timer while completely invulnerable (even to bumping). If you are bubbled, you can safely dock.

b.) After the session change timer expires, you can right click on your ship and cyno directly to another location while still completely untargetable because of the undock invulnerability.

c.) Assuming your destination is a station, which 99% of the time it is, you cyno into dock range, and have to survive a whole 10 second session change timer before you can dock. With 300k EHP and eyes on grid before you cyno in, pragmatically, there is NO RISK.

Let's be frank, how is riskless travel good for the game???????? Why should we have riskless travel in nullsec and lowsec... it makes NO SENSE...

Someone already mentioned that people can cyno in at a safe spot, and web-to-warp a ship long before a hostile lands on grid. And that is totally acceptable.... because doing that actually includes at least a little bit of risk...

Web to warp is fast, but generally not instantaneous, nor invulnerable to traps!!!
If you reuse a "safe" spot, people can be lying in wait... you cyno in, they can decloak and tackle before you get into warp.
If you typically warp directly to a station, people can use a dictor bubble up to pull your ship away from a station and gank it.
It also limits cyno chaining, where ships can go rapidly back and forth between two destinations, as they can no longer instantly dock to cap up between cyno's.