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Slave sets and Crystal Sets !!!?!?!?!?!
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Vandarra Deneroth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-06-22 03:47:23 UTC
HI

Im sure this has been posted 1000x before, but i feel the topic needs revisiting quite often since clearly the message hasn’t gotten through. Either that or vie missed something.

YEs that’s right .. slave sets and crystal sets W T F.

While im 100% for both of these sets and their respective uses, there needs to be some evening out on what they can and can’t do.
Thats right - the Caps/Super caps debate.

Why on earth (or somewhere in new Eden) would you allow one to effect these behemoths of the battlefield and not the other.
You're effectively writing off 50% of the super capitals due to the ******** bonuses the slave set gives off.

The answer is pretty simple IMO,

1) Make an equivalent Shield Set to the slave ( +% to shield HP)
2) Allow the Crystal Set to work on Capital Mod - BRING BACK ACTIVE TANKING!!!!!!!!!!
3) Remove the Slaves ability to affect Armour on super caps.

OR EVEN BOTH 1 and 2 !!!!

Give the armour lovers a set that does +% to shield boost to align them with the crystal.

All you hear about is Avatar this .. Aeon that Nyx Nyx bla bla bla. And no sh!T they have 4x the HP of the other Classes.
Whats the Point in even having Hel's/Rag's/Leviathans etc in the game - People use them because they are loyalists not because they are better than the Avatars etc.

CCP you're going through fixing the ships one at a Time .. thats great - but this is something that effects ALL ship classes.

/End rant
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-06-22 04:00:26 UTC
They already nerfed the base HP of armor supers to counteract the effect of Slaves.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#3 - 2012-06-22 04:59:21 UTC
If Crystals don't work on capitals, neither should slaves. Personally I'm a fan of letting them all work.
Alara IonStorm
#4 - 2012-06-22 05:26:41 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
They already nerfed the base HP of armor supers to counteract the effect of Slaves.

I found it kinda silly that they made it so you have to get an 1 bil Implant Set standard for your Armor Supercap.

Wouldn't it just been easier and a lot less lopsided to make Supercapitals not effected by Implants.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-06-22 06:44:08 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I found it kinda silly that they made it so you have to get an 1 bil Implant Set standard for your Armor Supercap.


Slaves are a minor expense when you're talking about owning and operating a supercap.
Alara IonStorm
#6 - 2012-06-22 06:56:57 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I found it kinda silly that they made it so you have to get an 1 bil Implant Set standard for your Armor Supercap.


Slaves are a minor expense when you're talking about owning and operating a supercap.

I never said they were not.

I don't think any ship should have stats designed around needing certain implants.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-06-22 06:57:06 UTC
A tanked armor supercap + slaves has same hp as a tanked shield supercap due to recent changes.

Many more pilots have armor trained up however and are in possession of armor supercaps compared to shieldcaps. This is a huge amount of inertia.

Arguably, the Wyvern is the best supercap atm.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-06-22 07:43:15 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
I don't think any ship should have stats designed around needing certain implants.


"Needing"

They don't need slaves, but it's such a marginal cost for such a huge gain, it's a no-brainer. Or would you prefer they blissfully ignored what people actually do versus what you thought they'd do?
Alara IonStorm
#9 - 2012-06-22 07:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Mfume Apocal wrote:

"Needing"

They don't need slaves,

They do if they wish to to compete.
Mfume Apocal wrote:

but it's such a marginal cost for such a huge gain, it's a no-brainer.

Over shields which is why they nerfed the ships.
Mfume Apocal wrote:

Or would you prefer they blissfully ignored what people actually do versus what you thought they'd do?

Absolutely.

Either the ship is implant dependent to compete or overpowered with them and I don't like either option.

CCP discussed a Shield Slave Set as well for Super Caps as another solution.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-06-22 09:40:28 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
CCP discussed a Shield Slave Set as well for Super Caps as another solution.


200k EHP drakes inc.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#11 - 2012-06-22 09:59:22 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
They already nerfed the base HP of armor supers to counteract the effect of Slaves.

I found it kinda silly that they made it so you have to get an 1 bil Implant Set standard for your Armor Supercap.

Wouldn't it just been easier and a lot less lopsided to make Supercapitals not effected by Implants.


This

Although a Chimera has a sickeningly strong tank compared to most armor tankers. It literally is the best solo cap for non-armor-spider fleets. The wyvern i have never flown personally.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#12 - 2012-06-22 10:29:40 UTC  |  Edited by: nahjustwarpin
a quick eft warrioring:

[Chimera, spider energy]

4x Capital Murky Energy Transmitter I

2x Capital Neutron Saturation Injector I
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Damage Control II
Tuvan's Modified Co-Processor
Power Diagnostic System II
Reactor Control Unit II

3x Large Egress Port Maximizer I

2 chimeras in spider tank (no siege) tank 12.6k dps each (all lvl5) with over 89% cap stable tank

max you can get with 2 archons is 8.3k dps 33% cap stable

you can't possibly think about buffing it. what it needs is only a nerf

upgrade tuvan's cpu to a better one and you can get 14.1k dps tank (swap thermal hardener for sba)
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#13 - 2012-06-22 13:25:34 UTC
nahjustwarpin wrote:
a quick eft warrioring:

[Chimera, spider energy]

4x Capital Murky Energy Transmitter I

2x Capital Neutron Saturation Injector I
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Damage Control II
Tuvan's Modified Co-Processor
Power Diagnostic System II
Reactor Control Unit II

3x Large Egress Port Maximizer I

2 chimeras in spider tank (no siege) tank 12.6k dps each (all lvl5) with over 89% cap stable tank

max you can get with 2 archons is 8.3k dps 33% cap stable

you can't possibly think about buffing it. what it needs is only a nerf

upgrade tuvan's cpu to a better one and you can get 14.1k dps tank (swap thermal hardener for sba)


That's a pretty huge EFT warrior. - the fit i used to run look something like this (i used to have 2x sensor boosters until they brought out triage, then they became pointless)

[Chimera, Combat]

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Damage Control II

Capital Shield Booster I
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Triage Module II
Capital Shield Transporter I
Capital Shield Transporter I
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Einherji x10


50% cap stable with its own shield booster. 3.30 in triage - 7 minutes of remote repping. 2 minutes in triage (i know, bad).

The tank though is INSANE. It's CAP STABLE at 7200 omni. overheated it's cap stable at 12000 omni...

In triage that 2.3 minutes of 47,000 DPS tank...

Short of a titan 1-shotting you that will take a LONG time to be broken, that's pretty much the most insane solo tank you'll get *on a realistic fit, e.g. not one that will never be flown and isn't combat viable.*

P.S.

The 2 empty high slots i usually fit smarties on.
Lili Lu
#14 - 2012-06-22 13:43:47 UTC
Vandarra Deneroth wrote:
. . . end rant

As you no doubt see your rant has gotten little co-ranting support, and what support has come has been qualified. The tanking modes are different. And the supercap disparity was solved in what most of us feel was the wrong way. My preference would have been that slaves had been barred from affecting capital sized ships.

Anyway, as was pointed out by Daniel Plain, introducing shield slaves has a whole set of problems that come with it. Including the regen effect on hp with shield. The only way such sets might be balanced is if they reduced regen to zero. It seems the new tanka toys we got with this expansion were also reinforcing the buffer and active dichotomy. So meh.
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#15 - 2012-06-22 14:38:20 UTC
notthisthreadagain.jpg

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#16 - 2012-06-22 14:40:32 UTC
I don't see a problem here.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#17 - 2012-06-22 17:45:12 UTC
working as intended, both tanking style has its own pros and cons