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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Momoyo
Rivinshield Trading Inc.
#1141 - 2012-06-22 14:43:25 UTC
Huh should have gone to that thing...
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1142 - 2012-06-22 14:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
corestwo wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
This quote from the op makes it pretty clear that there was a bug that "doubled the rewards" and though CCP patched the bug out "the damage was done" and the cabal had the "seed LP" for the scheme.

I guess there is a question (that only CCP can answer in their internal enquiry) of whether this bug was reported by the op at the time it was being used to gain the seed LP for the ongoing project.

You know, we can say its a bug, but we don't really actually know if it was a bug or if ccp just went "You know, double rewarding players doesn't make any sense, does it."

We know this wasn't a programing bug - the original design as shown in the devblog included cargo dropped in the lp, and people commented on it. That was a design choice that wound up putting a 2x multiplier in (and making an element of chance involved).

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Carlos Aranda
Doomheim
#1143 - 2012-06-22 14:49:12 UTC
anyways I seem to know the Switzers better than you Goons do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAoDzIsx03E
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1144 - 2012-06-22 14:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Gul'gotha Derv'ash
Amarr Ian wrote:

How about you tell me how this didn't fail. I'm not saying that it wasn't a good idea, but what did happen, is that they broadcast-ed what they were doing, (while bragging their a**** off) and lost all the hard? earned ISK.

Now please tell me how this wasn't a fail.



They haven't lost anything yet, and from my understanding, the only reason it was announced was that some dumbass leaked an internal document talking about this. As for the punishment they will likely get... it will be a slap on the wrist. CCP has a habit of coddling Goons in any and all actions they take even when they severely hurt the game and the way CCP looks in the public eye.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1145 - 2012-06-22 15:00:05 UTC
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:
Amarr Ian wrote:

How about you tell me how this didn't fail. I'm not saying that it wasn't a good idea, but what did happen, is that they broadcast-ed what they were doing, (while bragging their a**** off) and lost all the hard? earned ISK.

Now please tell me how this wasn't a fail.



They haven't lost anything yet, and from my understanding, the only reason it was announced was that some dumbass leaked an internal document talking about this. As for the punishment they will likely get... it will be a slap on the wrist. CCP has a habit of coddling Goons in any and all actions they take even when they are severe.


No. I purposely told CCP, frantically you could say. Where I screwed up is, well I am bad at twitter as I only have twitter to ask Diagoras for stats. I didn't realize it's public if I sent something to Punkturis. Whoops.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Gul'gotha Derv'ash
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1146 - 2012-06-22 15:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gul'gotha Derv'ash
Aryth wrote:
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:
Amarr Ian wrote:

How about you tell me how this didn't fail. I'm not saying that it wasn't a good idea, but what did happen, is that they broadcast-ed what they were doing, (while bragging their a**** off) and lost all the hard? earned ISK.

Now please tell me how this wasn't a fail.



They haven't lost anything yet, and from my understanding, the only reason it was announced was that some dumbass leaked an internal document talking about this. As for the punishment they will likely get... it will be a slap on the wrist. CCP has a habit of coddling Goons in any and all actions they take even when they are severe.


No. I purposely told CCP, frantically you could say. Where I screwed up is, well I am bad at twitter as I only have twitter to ask Diagoras for stats. I didn't realize it's public if I sent something to Punkturis. Whoops.



"I'll believe that when me **** turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet."

Your whole "I was trying to be a good citizen by reporting it" talk is that while you assumed this was a horrible exploit and abuse of the in game mechanics you continued to do so, and when they tried to hot fix it you found a work around and still continued abusing it. I think your self proclaimed sum of isk you made was in the trillions? You would think if you were "frantically" trying to inform CCP you would have stopped after you figured it out, but no you continued to abuse it over and over and over.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1147 - 2012-06-22 15:04:55 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Goons took credit at the beginning of the thread now your saying your not , inconsistent ?

Tal


Let me try to say it more bluntly.

CCP has the logs and the data.



... and their logs will show nothing! Lol

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1148 - 2012-06-22 15:05:03 UTC
Meno Theaetetus wrote:


I very much doubt CCP want to send out the message that although this is a sandbox, market manipulation, because that was what this was, is only allowed to go as far as to make you a little bit of money, make a lot and you're 'exploiting' the system.


I don't think anyone thinks the exploit happened in the market; the exploit happened in getting LP's.

If it wasn't "wrong" or "a bug", then why would they even bother reporting it to CCP in the first place? If they really believed what they were doing was legit, they'd still be doing it and you can bet you wouldn't hear it from them.

What they did was grab up as much as they thought they could get away with. "Ohhh, CCP, it's no biggie, right? It's just 5tril worth of ISK. It's a drop in the bucket. You made a bad call, we exploited it, lets just call it a wash and go about our space business."




Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1149 - 2012-06-22 15:07:03 UTC
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:

"I'll believe that when me **** turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet."

unfortunately for you unmistakable proof shows you're wrong

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#1150 - 2012-06-22 15:07:03 UTC
Ghost Xray wrote:
Meno Theaetetus wrote:


I very much doubt CCP want to send out the message that although this is a sandbox, market manipulation, because that was what this was, is only allowed to go as far as to make you a little bit of money, make a lot and you're 'exploiting' the system.


I don't think anyone thinks the exploit happened in the market; the exploit happened in getting LP's.

If it wasn't "wrong" or "a bug", then why would they even bother reporting it to CCP in the first place? If they really believed what they were doing was legit, they'd still be doing it and you can bet you wouldn't hear it from them.

What they did was grab up as much as they thought they could get away with. "Ohhh, CCP, it's no biggie, right? It's just 5tril worth of ISK. It's a drop in the bucket. You made a bad call, we exploited it, lets just call it a wash and go about our space business."






"Hey, we found this thing. We don't know iff you intended this or not, but it allows us to do X if we go nuts with it. Here is proof."

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1151 - 2012-06-22 15:07:06 UTC
Gul'gotha Derv'ash wrote:
"I'll believe that when me **** turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet."

You might want to read back in the thread when Jade shows us the twitter link. So if I were you I'd call the doctor, because ****'s purple and smell like rainbow sherbet.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1152 - 2012-06-22 15:07:31 UTC
in other words get eating

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1153 - 2012-06-22 15:09:52 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Ghost Xray wrote:
Meno Theaetetus wrote:


I very much doubt CCP want to send out the message that although this is a sandbox, market manipulation, because that was what this was, is only allowed to go as far as to make you a little bit of money, make a lot and you're 'exploiting' the system.


I don't think anyone thinks the exploit happened in the market; the exploit happened in getting LP's.

If it wasn't "wrong" or "a bug", then why would they even bother reporting it to CCP in the first place? If they really believed what they were doing was legit, they'd still be doing it and you can bet you wouldn't hear it from them.

What they did was grab up as much as they thought they could get away with. "Ohhh, CCP, it's no biggie, right? It's just 5tril worth of ISK. It's a drop in the bucket. You made a bad call, we exploited it, lets just call it a wash and go about our space business."






"Hey, we found this thing. We don't know iff you intended this or not, but it allows us to do X if we go nuts with it. Here is proof."


If that were true, I'd expect they'd say, "Oh, and here, you should probably take back these LP's we gained because in the hands of a villain, they may then try to dominate the market with it and that'd given them an unfair advantage", instead of "hell yeah, WE B SPACE RICH!! TO THE FORUMS TO GLOAT!!!"
Cordially Yours
Doomheim
#1154 - 2012-06-22 15:12:39 UTC
why is it that the forum mods have been closing all sorts of threads lately for all sorts of lame ass reasons, but they haven't locked this one yet?
Lexmana
#1155 - 2012-06-22 15:13:06 UTC
Ghost Xray wrote:
If that were true, I'd expect they'd say, "Oh, and here, you should probably take back these LP's we gained because in the hands of a villain, they may then try to dominate the market with it and that'd given them an unfair advantage", instead of "hell yeah, WE B SPACE RICH!! TO THE FORUMS TO GLOAT!!!"

Nothing wrong trying to make a living helping CCP with game design. The goons did this one good me think. But maybe they tried to get away with to much. And why wouldn't you brag if you made 5 trillion ISK?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1156 - 2012-06-22 15:14:30 UTC
Cordially Yours wrote:
why is it that the forum mods have been closing all sorts of threads lately for all sorts of lame ass reasons, but they haven't locked this one yet?



Maybe because it hasn't broken the rules yet?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1157 - 2012-06-22 15:15:25 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Ghost Xray wrote:
If that were true, I'd expect they'd say, "Oh, and here, you should probably take back these LP's we gained because in the hands of a villain, they may then try to dominate the market with it and that'd given them an unfair advantage", instead of "hell yeah, WE B SPACE RICH!! TO THE FORUMS TO GLOAT!!!"

Nothing wrong trying to make a living helping CCP with game design. The goons did this one good me think. But maybe they tried to get away with to much. And why wouldn't you brag if you made 5 trillion ISK?


We are not making any attempt to hide the fact we wanted to profit. I don't believe profit and keeping the game sane are mutually exclusive.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
#1158 - 2012-06-22 15:16:06 UTC
congrats goons. good exploitation is good.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1159 - 2012-06-22 15:16:57 UTC
Cordially Yours wrote:
why is it that the forum mods have been closing all sorts of threads lately for all sorts of lame ass reasons, but they haven't locked this one yet?

because it's a thread thats interesting, shows off the game in a great way, and is really impressive

it even made the news

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1160 - 2012-06-22 15:19:19 UTC
Carlos Aranda wrote:

. Others also have of course ship reimbursement programs. In other words, the wealth does not reach the average Goon. Where is that money?



Why should they give ISK to the average Goon?
Even the communist USSR brass had their nice villas while everybody else sucked the hard nuts.


Anyway here's the fairest punishment for those 5 guys:

2 years of obligatory work in CCP as coders and QA testers.


Either this will be a suitable Dante's alike retaliation and will make them experiment their own stuff.

And / or

EvE's game code quality will increase 3 fold.

Win on all the line.

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