These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#1041 - 2012-06-22 12:33:19 UTC
Vokanic wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboards/g19-keyboard-for-gaming

"3. You may not use stored rapid keystrokes that facilitate acquisition of items at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play"

I'd return my keyboard to Best Buy, but it's outside of the return policy. What should I do so I don't get banned for owning a $200 keyboard?


Well you could say that using your $200 keyboard in certain ways is quite okay, but admitting to using it to make 20,000 keypresses in a half dozen hours of automatic "click button get loot" action isn't okay. That really does fall directly into the Eula clause quoted above. I mean lets be honest, it really does - you'd need a pretty top lawyer to argue your way out of that conviction.


How did it accelerate acquisition? A person wants to buy 100 implants, at once, from the LP store. They have the LP to do so.
The limitations of the system prevent them from doing so.

End of the day, the LP wasn't acquired via macros. they got the same amount regardless if they use them or not. Unless you'd like to argue that waiting for market transactions to process is 'game play'



Well, it takes a lot of keypresses, previously when I've bought datacores from the loyalty point store I've spent 15 mins getting a few thousand out, gotten bored and then shrugged and blown my lps on fleet stabbers instead.

One can assume that most players would draw the line at sitting at their keyboard clicking accept for 14 hours and consider it a pretty poor return for their gaming enjoyment. If a keyboard marco was used to automate that process of collecting goodies then sure ... it kinda is facilitating the acquisition of items at an accelerated rate because I don't think you actually could match a keyboard macro for FOURTEEN HOURS of manual clicking!

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Riyal
invidious Squid
#1042 - 2012-06-22 12:33:22 UTC
Totally haven't read past page 10, but well done on beating the fw system. Its impressive what can come from a lot of people worming together.

In hindsight my post should have had more psssshhhh
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1043 - 2012-06-22 12:33:28 UTC
Amarr Ian wrote:
Aryth writes a WALL OF TEXT braging while stroking his ePeen, and losses all the isk he's made awsome.


even if they take away the ISK he made from this he's still ballin' rich

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Vokanic
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1044 - 2012-06-22 12:33:43 UTC
Mabego Tetrimon wrote:
Vokanic wrote:

How did it accelerate acquisition? A person wants to buy 100 implants, at once, from the LP store. They have the LP to do so.
The limitations of the system prevent them from doing so.

End of the day, the LP wasn't acquired via macros. they got the same amount regardless if they use them or not. Unless you'd like to argue that waiting for market transactions to process is 'game play'


i see a BIG difference between using 14 hours of clicking time by hand (as it should be by ordinary game play) and like dk 5 minutes of using a Macro. You Sir not?


You want each implant purchase to take over 5 minutes?
Mabego Tetrimon
Spiritus Draconis
#1045 - 2012-06-22 12:34:52 UTC
Vokanic wrote:


How does a macro help them get more LP?? Since when did buying stuff from the LP market become a skill based on how fast you can click through the UI because you cant purchase more then 1 at once?


read before post please.

To aquire that lot of items in a regular way the goons needed aprox 14 hours of regular clicking OR using a macro.

The use of Macro is baned for aquiring items (not for firing guns, btw) by Eula. IF they did it with Macro they broke the Eula on that too.
Amarr Ian
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1046 - 2012-06-22 12:35:07 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Amarr Ian wrote:
Aryth writes a WALL OF TEXT braging while stroking his ePeen, and losses all the isk he's made awsome.


even if they take away the ISK he made from this he's still ballin' rich



Not the point still funny as ****, Enjoy the dry eyes Goons Big smile
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1047 - 2012-06-22 12:35:23 UTC
I really don't see why one isn't simply able to type in a desired quantity of a given item in the LP store. You have the LP, you have the ISK - why not? v0v

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1048 - 2012-06-22 12:36:17 UTC
Amarr Ian wrote:
Not the point still funny as ****, Enjoy the dry eyes Goons Big smile


okay Amarr Ian forum alt guy

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#1049 - 2012-06-22 12:36:43 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Aareya wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
THERE WAS NO BUG. Just a poorly thought out formula, which was pointed out by multiple people many times prior to going live. CCP knew it was there, or is still ignoring the userbase(which they claim to have learned not to do).


This deserves emphasis.


It really doesn't because there was clearly a bug in the initial double-counting of LP for "destruction" even when parts of the loot dropped. This WAS A BUG. People really need to read a little more closely.

The LP for dropped item was a bug, it was reported and almost immediately fixed.

And yes, you are allowed to test a bug as 'Proof of concept' before reporting it, as long as you are not going out of your way to exploit it. You are even allowed to gain an advantage during the process of proving it, but this is the ONE place in the entire scheme that might be sketchy.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#1050 - 2012-06-22 12:37:05 UTC
Amarr Ian wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Amarr Ian wrote:
Aryth writes a WALL OF TEXT braging while stroking his ePeen, and losses all the isk he's made awsome.


even if they take away the ISK he made from this he's still ballin' rich



Not the point still funny as ****, Enjoy the dry eyes Goons Big smile


Yeah, no really. Aryth is still crazy rich even if CCP takes his FW money away. (Which is actually just tied up in items and blueprints and some still in LP.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#1051 - 2012-06-22 12:38:39 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
I really don't see why one isn't simply able to type in a desired quantity of a given item in the LP store. You have the LP, you have the ISK - why not? v0v


I don't disagree. The current interface is a joke. But thats as may be, - its a joke that everyone has to put up with. If in this case (and we obviously don't know for sure) 14 hours of manual clicking accept has been bypassed by use of a keyboard macro - that probably is a clear case of gaining an unfair advantage through automation and should trigger the eula clause.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Mabego Tetrimon
Spiritus Draconis
#1052 - 2012-06-22 12:38:54 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
I really don't see why one isn't simply able to type in a desired quantity of a given item in the LP store. You have the LP, you have the ISK - why not? v0v


i would like to see that too. But its not actual in the game and might be for a reason? Or not - who knows ;)

still, using a macro for acquiring items at large scale breaks the Eula.
Amarr Ian
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1053 - 2012-06-22 12:40:02 UTC
It doesn't matter how much isk he has. Its the fact of the massive post for an epic fail.
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1054 - 2012-06-22 12:40:13 UTC
Every time I think I understand this game someone comes along and produces something which blows my mind.
It's a bit unfair.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1055 - 2012-06-22 12:40:47 UTC
Amarr Ian wrote:
It doesn't matter how much isk he has. Its the fact of the massive post for an epic fail.

Tell us more about this ... "epic fail".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1056 - 2012-06-22 12:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Lapine Davion wrote:
Yeah, no really. Aryth is still crazy rich even if CCP takes his FW money away. (Which is actually just tied up in items and blueprints and some still in LP.


and even if it did happen, I doubt that any of the people who would inevitably gloat over it will ever accomplish anything even mediocre in comparison

believe me i do look forward to rubbing it in their faces

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1057 - 2012-06-22 12:41:50 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
I really don't see why one isn't simply able to type in a desired quantity of a given item in the LP store. You have the LP, you have the ISK - why not? v0v


I don't disagree. The current interface is a joke. But thats as may be, - its a joke that everyone has to put up with. If in this case (and we obviously don't know for sure) 14 hours of manual clicking accept has been bypassed by use of a keyboard macro - that probably is a clear case of gaining an unfair advantage through automation and should trigger the eula clause.


Tell us more about converting LP directly into ISK, thus spawning ISK from thin air.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Vokanic
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1058 - 2012-06-22 12:41:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vokanic
Mabego Tetrimon wrote:
Vokanic wrote:


How does a macro help them get more LP?? Since when did buying stuff from the LP market become a skill based on how fast you can click through the UI because you cant purchase more then 1 at once?


read before post please.

To aquire that lot of items in a regular way the goons needed aprox 14 hours of regular clicking OR using a macro.

The use of Macro is baned for aquiring items (not for firing guns, btw) by Eula. IF they did it with Macro they broke the Eula on that too.



Here's an experiment for you to try.

Open the LP store.
Put your mouse over the accept button on the item you want to buy
Click the left mouse button
Hit enter on the keyboard.
Repeat the last 2 steps as fast as possible.

With the time taken for the game to process the request, you'll get the same amount of items as if you used a macro over the same amount of time.

In fact a macro would need a delay programmed into it, otherwise half your clicks, and half your 'enter's would miss their intended place in the process. It simply removes the risk of RSI in that case
Elysium Foxx
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1059 - 2012-06-22 12:42:04 UTC
Ahh c'mon.

It's pretty obvious that CCP just totally meta gamed GSF, derr...
Ofc CCP knew about this before inferno went live, and Ofc CCP knew Goons would game it thinking they were clever. Right?

Now CCP devs are all down the pub clincking drinks and deciding how hard to swing the ban hammer.

No seriously, thanks for the entertainment goonies, its why we all love eve. Keep it up.
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#1060 - 2012-06-22 12:44:04 UTC
Goons do something that makes people angry. People get Angry. People demand Bans. Goons Troll those people. Cycle continues until end of time or the thread is locked.