EVE General Discussion

Wow.

41 pages of Null-sec blaming Hi-sec for Null's stagnation.

Talk about logical disconnect.

Null finally pooped too much in thier corner of the sandbox and it's Hi-sec carebears' fault because it smells bad and sticks to the bottom of their feet?

Null doesn't want more players in null, they want more victims in null. As long as small alliances and corps get ground into dust out in Sov-null dont' exepct a mass migration any time soon.

And it's not just a matter of CCP providing more stick and less carrot in hi-sec either.

I LOL hard everytime I see a post about claims that level 4's are so profitable. It makes me laugh so hard because they really are not compared to plexes, anomolies, wh loot. It is just so funny because compared to those things level 4's make **** all. Unless you want to grind faction missions for tags to buy faction gear then sell it. Oh wait in null and low sec you can make more and not have to grind missions for tags to get good drops because you found a faction spawn.

I LOL hard every time these players butt hurt from their bad experience claims this is how null is blah blah blah. Organized player groups are bad blah blah blah. Lies like small corporations cannot survive in null sec. I am in a small null sec corporation, I live in null sec I have fun doing it. I lose a ship, reship lose that ship all with a smile on my face. Why? Because taking systems is fun. CTA's are fun, big fleets are fun. I have never been in a fleet where the FC yells and berates us. Half the **** I see on the forums I have never seen in any null sec alliance I have been in so far. But then again I have never been in goonswarm, or test, or any of the other alliances that scam new members. Then again I don't have an idiot for a CEO. So I guess my experience in null has been a lot more positive than negative. Which seems to not be the case if I was to believe the bullshit on these forums.

I also have never been in an alliance that expected me to play this game like it was a 9 to 5. All of the alliances I have been in have been fun to play with. My experience in null has been nothing but fun, my corp just moved into the Drone Lands which is currently is a conflict area. Which means lots of PVP fleets up, lots of fun.

I call Shennanigans to those that say otherwise. I call Shennanigans on those that say null sec is not fun. I am condemning and blame those that whine that null sec is not fun for them therefore should not be fun for anyone. Those that will lie to players to keep them from going and joining the Sov warfare arena. When I started playing EVE I found out about null sec and how groups take and hold systems. It sounded like fun. The unfortunate thing is every single player I talked to about it either said don't do it because more than likey it is a scam. Or the kind of **** that some certain alliance ceo spouts out. While it maybe true of one certain alliance in 0.0 that doesn't mean all of them are like that. Revolutions often become worse governments than the ones they revolted against. Real World case and point: Cuba. I didn't believe any of these claims and quickly found out 90% of the **** players say about null are taken from the forums. 99% of the information about how living in null actually is, well its so much like bullshit you would think Sarah Palin wrote most of this crap. You either find null sec fun working with other people or you can be a loner and stay in Empire (this includes low sec.) go kill defensless miners, do all of that. Go have fun, and stop trying to make what I find fun into something ******** because you cannot make enough friends in eve to go take your own region or topple a bigger alliance you supposedly are against. The truth of eve is either you stay in the amateur hour (empire) or you go pro (null sec) find what is fun for you and go for it. Screw all these people that spout lies when they claim it is truth. If you want to try it out go for it. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/ you can see where the conflict regions are. Pick a side if you don't like how they work go to the other side. If you don't like how they work go to another region try it out there. See for yourself how 0.0 is.

The only way to improve how players perceive 0.0 is urging them to go see for themselves. I happen to know a good null sec corp that will accept almost any player young or old. There are lots of good null sec corps that will do the same. Lots of good alliances that understand this game is not a job, and help players new to null sec to learn how to have fun there.

Fun Times in 0.0

Everyone that says you should nerf high sec to make null sec better..well you are an idiot and you do not understand how sov should work. It is the player bases fault. You want that to change make an alliance, make friends with a few other alliances. Get some capitals, black ops ships, sbu's and go to town. Instead of waa waa waa my alliance lost providence..waa waa waa inferno 1.1 benefits goons and is a goon controlled patch to keep from losing in this war I am doing. Waa waa waa we have to actually work with multiple other alliances to create an empire. Waa Waa Waa..STFU already. Stop trying to ruin null sec because you couldn't hold a region and you are too butt hurt to try and hold a region again because it is a lot of work. Stop whining because holding sov is a lot of work. Put on your big girl panties and suck it up.

I don't really have a problem with Hi-sec ganking.

Frankly it's the one thing that gives Hi-sec a little excitement.

But the "fix" to Null is to simply make it more accessable. There's simply too gate-camped bottlenecks from Low to Null and getting yourself moved from Hi to Null is usually suicidal for those with less than six months of playtime.

So like lazy monkeys that humans are they stay where they think it's "safest", despite the ridiculous drudgery that Hi-sec is, no matter how painful, dull and tedious it is.

I'd rather crawl inside a wormhole than join a mega null-alliance.



CCP needs to add more Null systems, both NPC and Sov. And vastly increase the ease with which Indy players can set up shop out there.

Nerf Local chat, kill gatecamps, and make setting up small personal POS's out in Null easier for the individual player. Null will get it's population shift.

Hey hey hey,.,,not all of it is blaming hi seccers. I blame the null seccers more because instead of helping the null sec market which in my opinion is the only downside to living in null is everyone sells the crap they loot and the crap they mine in high sec making the Null Sec markets crap. Ammo gets limited because of this, production doesn't happen because a lot of the null systems with stations I have lived in have less production slots. I am unsure if this is a game mechanic or if the alliances that control the systems I lived in just couldn't spend the 12 to 20b it takes to upgrade the station services. I don't even know what the refinery cap is, because in the last alliance my corp was in I asked that question and I was told not to worry about it. The problem with null sec is not the mechanics but those that live there. Unless 100% refine rate in an outpost is impossible. Which is stupid and unbalanced because there is a pos refinery module that gives 100% refine rate. This gives WH dwellers the industrial edge over sov systems as far as the ability to produce and refine. Sov systems that can have outposts should have a 100% and the pos modules should bring an output of at the most 75% If any refining changes should be done to high sec it should be based on standings. I.e. to get 100% refine rate in empire the player should have a 10.0 standing with that particular corporation that owns the station. That would be simpler and less people would quit because of it.

Not only that but then there is the bullshit propaganda posts of people proposing "fixes" which would take viable region defense tactics out. Like it is hard to make a Jump Bridge inoperable. Like it is hard to disrupt a Logistics network. Which it really isn't if your FC know what he is doing, and your alliance has proper intel such as the cyno alts these guys have. Then you have other people who claim that CCP needs to fix it so players can't go hey we are neighbors we don't like these guys living in x region. Let's join forces take and hold this region together. That's just stupid, CCP has no control over that. They can act stern and say "Don't make friends with other alliances." But honestly most players would laugh, because short of banning people that do not comply (which they would not do because more would quit over that than would quit if the proposed and stupid nerfs that wouldn't even make null sec vibrant at all that you see on this thread. Which a lot would if these changes would be put into effect.

I mean forum whining has already broken one region of null sec, more forum whining would break more of null sec. Making it less attractive than it is now. The only thing that keeps null sec from being vibrant is that there is no real reward for making a null sec regions market comparable to high sec. I think the only thing that needs to be changed is the profitability of high sec markets.

This is how I would do it.

I would change the taxes based on security ratings. 1.0 - .5 would get between a 45% and 35% depending on sec status tax on market transactions

.4 - .1 would be between 35% and 25% with the changes to the FW system this would make the taxes lower in those low sec systems. Which would in turn make those systems into trade hubs for as long as whatever faction holds it for whatever amount of time it holds it for. This would help out FW because then the Market people would have a reason to help the faction that is holding said system. Without being in FW.

all null sec systems would enjoy the same taxes that high sec enjoys now.

This could have two effects. 1.) it would disperse the current market hubs making new market hubs outside of 1.0 systems and possibly to .5 or low sec systems. and 2.) As a way of revolt the traders would probably increase every sell order and decrease the amount of pay out of buy orders.

This would effectively make level 4 missions in high sec less profitable, but wouldn't nerf the system that needs to be buffed. More on that later. If 1.) and 2,) happened and option 3.) didnt happen which would be a massive ragequit because then people would make less profits in high sec. Without seeing that you would make more money on the markets where more risk is required. This would balance out the risk vs. reward imbalance eve is currently seeing.

I said before the mission system needs to be buffed. I am going to explain this in simple terms so all you simple people can understand it. Currently, the rewards for running missions in lower security systems including null sec is the same as running missions in empire. I think the agent payout, bounties and the loot needs to be better in low and null. Or the payout, bounties and loot change with the security status. I.e. agents in .5 systems would pay more than an agent in a 1.0 system because generally .5 agents give you missions in low sec. If the mission goes to low sec the reward should be the same as if you accepted the mission in a low sec system. Making the carrot comprable to the stick..Oh and let at least one faction spawn in a level V mission drop faction loot. Make Level V rats drop better loot than can be found in high sec. Or make them drop more loot than you can get in a level IV mission. More epic arcs for pirate factions. Like level IV and V epic arcs for empire and pirate factions.

well personally i think we 0.0 dwellers can only blame ourselfs...

Everytime theres game headline news about 0.0 its about major battle somewhere. Nor wonder most people prefer highsec.Ho the heck wants newer ending war.

Nerfing highsec industry dosent help nullsec industry. Inudtsry happens in highsec for a reason. None one wants to see looseing access to station where all your blueprints and long manufacturing jobs are. Thats the reason.

Theres no easy way to fix it. Peasents need to do their stuff despite witch warlord happens to be in power in area. Maybe ccp could implement that somehow? Become peasent in area and taxes/fees you pay go to how ever happens to be currently in power there?

I pretty much gave up on 0.0 mining the day my alliance stopped their ore buying program.. too much trouble for too little return, so im doing what most in 0.0 do. Ratting. Recently i have found even more lucrative things in highsec to do then running regular ratting sites in 0.0.

So you think 0.0 is decerted, blame your alliance for not offering options of activity people wants to do. If theres real opportunities to do other things then wage constant war, people will come. All they need is little stability and even industry will spring up. Currently large wars can change ownerships of large parts of 0.0 space, sometimes slower, sometimes very fast...

CCP has no magic trick to make it happen. We players have means to make it happen, but only if we want to. Think about it for moment.

Safest way to move to null is to fly to your new home in a covert prober and probe a wormhole route back to highsec where you move the rest of your stuff through.

(nerf wormholes they are what enables the nullsec blob machine)

Actually I am very /r/tarded, the best way to get to your corp/alliance is not to fly there at all. Get in a clone with no implants, reset your home station, make sure your clone is updatedm undock in a pod, warp to a planet and self destruct. You will immediately go to the null sec station you designated. Set up a jump clone in that station. You should have some isk stockpiled so you can just buy a cheap prober like Nicolo said and probe out a WH. Otherwise....


You still have to know how to avoid gate camps, especially in an active war zone because there are a lot looking for pilots new to null. Another way to move your stuff is ask in alliance or in your corp if they could jump your ships out to null. Most alliances are willing to help new members come out to null and get situated. There are many different ways to safely move to null. It all depends on what your alliance/corp has at their disposal and what they are willing to do to help you get out there with them. I honestly think that if the alliance/corp you join claims they can't jump your stuff or won't. Or won't help in anyway to get you moved, isn't a null sec corp/alliance you will have much fun in. Or is one that is more likely to gank you on the way there. Not all null sec alliances are like Test and Goonswarm. Many are willing to help new players instead of just saying get up here as best you can.

Of course that is if the rumors I have heard about Test and Goonswarm are true..they could secretly be good people and just project to everyone else they are /b/tards. I doubt it, but still the possibility that they would help new players despite the rumors is still there. The point is there are many ways to get to null and join in on operations that are out there. Null is a very accessible place if you know how. If it wasn't afk cloaky pilots with cynos waiting to hot drop ratters wouldn't be able to get to the systems they target.

The point is if you are thinking about going into null do research, look at alliance members contact a director of a corp, diplo, or recruitment director in that alliance and ask questions about joining, and what that corp/alliance will do to help you move. Ask about the area they live in what they do to make isk, the kind of pvp ops they do, if they have an industry system (believe it or not a lot of the big alliances do have a industry system especially if they make their own caps and super caps. ) if they allow for things to be sold on the local market (some don't allow it.) . And anything else that is important to you. Case and point my wife a self proclaimed carebear who never pvped untill this weekend did this

http://0eath.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=723239&m=6&y=2012

This happy carebear who never killed any player her entire eve career until this week did that in a CTA and she had fun doing it. Before this weekend she had no real wish to go to null because the refine rates are crap, and the buy orders are sometimes 20% lower than the buy orders in the region she lives in atm. She liked the FC's and how they operated. Now she wants to move from high sec into null sec. All it took was for her to be apart of a few fleets get some kills and find out she had fun doing it. One more high seccer converted into a null seccer. I mean if my wife who claimed she wouldn't find pvp fun or null sec fun finally gave it a try and found it to exceed her expectations, and actually had fun after the anxiety passed. Then I think anyone willing to give it a shot can have fun in null how it is.

You need to take Uni lessons from Master Akira on how to troll properly.

Just because twenty people shoot down an idea doesn't make that idea wrong or invalid.

Who cares about holding sov? Sov is pretty much irrelevant now.

I'm talking about being a parasite and setting up shop in someone's backyard and them not being able to do much about it.

If I wanted to be safe and carebear I would stay in high sec. My intent is to show that null sec isn't as inaccessible to players as many people think. My points on how CCP cannot change something that isn't a game mechanic such as Coallitions which are verbal agreements that can and are quite frequently broken. Good example is the DRF, they imploded after the Northern Coalition was taken out. The hard cold fact of null sec and how it seems to be designed to me is that it follows the prisoner's dilemma. Which states the best outcome is the one where the two subjects in that certain theory work together and keep their mouths shut. Later psychology proved that human beings ignore the basis of the theory. That the best outcome always comes not from what a person perceives is the best outcome, but cooperation towards a goal that best benefits both parties. The fact a monthly sov bill can run an alliance anywhere from 2 to 12b for a constellation just from the sov bill itself. Not including if a bigger alliance has already claimed it and wants you to pay a "protection" fee err rent. Proves this, a single person could probably pay the sov bill, but to actually hold it no matter how many alts a person has and how many accounts the person can control at once. A group of players will always win.

Because honestly solo play was never made in eve to be able to beat group play. It's the way it is and the way I think null should be. We are playing an mmo and one about space battles. I haven't read or seen a sci fi series that one single person was able to beat everything. Even Ellen Ripley had help.

If I was that naive and thought a FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE in null sec was possible with no possibility of being bashed..Well I would be a very big fracking moron now wouldn't I?

Aren't they also messing around in fountain with TEST?