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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Maddy Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#521 - 2012-06-21 22:41:04 UTC
More forum comedy ... oh the Drama... you folks(goons) should start a soap opera ... funny how some goons will go to desperately be the talk of the town ..
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#522 - 2012-06-21 22:42:33 UTC
Maddy Joringer wrote:
More forum comedy ... oh the Drama... you folks(goons) should start a soap opera ... funny how some goons will go to desperately be the talk of the town ..

TL;DR: Bleat.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#523 - 2012-06-21 22:45:34 UTC
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Kethe wrote:
It clearly states in the EULA abusing such loopholes will result in your character being banned


where


The closest Ive found:

5. You may not engage in any conduct that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, including without limitation arranging, making or accepting transfers of items to a character without adequate consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in an Account and increasing its value for an Account sale.

Could be argued either way, but Im sure CCP will not do any arguing. They will just act as they see fit.

that's a bizarre rule and one anyone with two accounts flagrantly ignores, where the hell is that in the eula

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#524 - 2012-06-21 22:47:35 UTC
Maddy Joringer wrote:
More forum comedy ... oh the Drama... you folks(goons) should start a soap opera ... funny how some goons will go to desperately be the talk of the town ..

Content > Forum Tears

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#525 - 2012-06-21 22:47:36 UTC
Harrowedsmiley wrote:
Hats off to the Goons, they did the research and therefore get the profits.


Much like Enron.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#526 - 2012-06-21 22:48:56 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Harrowedsmiley wrote:
Hats off to the Goons, they did the research and therefore get the profits.


Much like Enron.

hello cipher jones i am still waiting for the date when your sub runs out, to prove you were not bluffing about saying you were unsubbing

let's show the world you're serious, and not like some "pro wrestler" that's actually a fat man in a tutu playacting

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#527 - 2012-06-21 22:49:39 UTC
Attention it is now against the EULA to use the market to make isk

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
#528 - 2012-06-21 22:50:41 UTC
this whole thread is tl:dr (did read the OP though)

so we have
1) Goons being Goons, finding a loophole in the system, and exploiting it to the nth degree
2) CCP patches Loophole
3) Goons make post of what they did
4) Pubbies cry that Goons exploited a loophole in the coding and rigged the markets, calls for bannings with thier pitchforks and torches. (ie. typical Thursday Evening in EVE online)

did I miss anything? :)
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#529 - 2012-06-21 22:51:26 UTC
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:
5. You may not engage in any conduct that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, including without limitation arranging, making or accepting transfers of items to a character without adequate consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in an Account and increasing its value for an Account sale.

Could be argued either way, but Im sure CCP will not do any arguing. They will just act as they see fit.


also i guess i've blatantly violated that rule by teaching newbies how to scam billions from pubbies, and the same pubbies who got scammed violated the rule by sending tons of isk to them

i await my ban, CCP

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#530 - 2012-06-21 22:51:56 UTC
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
this whole thread is tl:dr (did read the OP though)

so we have
1) Goons being Goons, finding a loophole in the system, and exploiting it to the nth degree
2) CCP patches Loophole
3) Goons make post of what they did
4) Pubbies cry that Goons exploited a loophole in the coding and rigged the markets, calls for bannings with thier pitchforks and torches. (ie. typical Thursday Evening in EVE online)

did I miss anything? :)

suprisingly most pubbies are pretty amused rather than outraged

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#531 - 2012-06-21 22:55:42 UTC
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
this whole thread is tl:dr (did read the OP though)

so we have
1) Goons being Goons, finding a loophole in the system, and exploiting it to the nth degree
2) CCP patches Loophole
3) Goons make post of what they did
4) Pubbies cry that Goons exploited a loophole in the coding and rigged the markets, calls for bannings with thier pitchforks and torches. (ie. typical Thursday Evening in EVE online)

did I miss anything? :)



Pretty much except:
1. Your use of the word exploit is different to the meaning that CCP use it for.
2. Goons supposedly tried to pass information regarding loophole on to CCP prior to utlising current mechanics (evidenced by twitter post - claimed by aryth)
3. The tears have been pretty limited
4. Much of the thread is Goons making many posts.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#532 - 2012-06-21 22:59:00 UTC
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Kethe wrote:
It clearly states in the EULA abusing such loopholes will result in your character being banned


where


The closest Ive found:

5. You may not engage in any conduct that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, including without limitation arranging, making or accepting transfers of items to a character without adequate consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in an Account and increasing its value for an Account sale.

Could be argued either way, but Im sure CCP will not do any arguing. They will just act as they see fit.

Yah pretty idiotic analysis. Clearly you've never read a contract before... the end of that sentence is "for an Account sale". If it can be shown that is it not "for an account sale" there isn't a violation. Of course you can exchange assets and ISK in between accounts you own. You can give ships and isk to corp members. You can give billions to a scammer in Jita for no reason at all. That is all perfectly above board. I can only extrapolate from the verbiage and context of this rule that it is meant to put limits on the people who farm alts for the purpose of resale. It has no application in this situation.

More likely if action is taken against the goons the justification will be something along the lines of exploiting (I know... I know... but that's the argument they will use) and as precedent I would google the infinity gun exploit (which has been fixed) which was a problem with CCPs math (as in this case) in certain wormholes or more likely the issue they had where POS's were completing full moon goo mining cycles at down time if configured a certain way (don't know a lot about that one but that was a straight exploit and has also been fixed).

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#533 - 2012-06-21 22:59:01 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
this whole thread is tl:dr (did read the OP though)

so we have
1) Goons being Goons, finding a loophole in the system, and exploiting it to the nth degree
2) CCP patches Loophole
3) Goons make post of what they did
4) Pubbies cry that Goons exploited a loophole in the coding and rigged the markets, calls for bannings with thier pitchforks and torches. (ie. typical Thursday Evening in EVE online)

did I miss anything? :)

suprisingly most pubbies are pretty amused rather than outraged


Don't forget that your mother is literally a pubbie.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#534 - 2012-06-21 23:00:12 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
this whole thread is tl:dr (did read the OP though)

so we have
1) Goons being Goons, finding a loophole in the system, and exploiting it to the nth degree
2) CCP patches Loophole
3) Goons make post of what they did
4) Pubbies cry that Goons exploited a loophole in the coding and rigged the markets, calls for bannings with thier pitchforks and torches. (ie. typical Thursday Evening in EVE online)

did I miss anything? :)

suprisingly most pubbies are pretty amused rather than outraged



Wait till the weekend, when the faction warfare guys realize they aren't going to get everything upgraded without the goon LP slush fund and the market for LP store items hits the floor.
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#535 - 2012-06-21 23:02:00 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Harrowedsmiley wrote:
Hats off to the Goons, they did the research and therefore get the profits.


Much like Enron.


Please explain the comparison here. I do not know where Goonswarm are listed and who is buying selling their shares and what information they are being told.
Vitreosity
Tidex Industries
#536 - 2012-06-21 23:03:47 UTC
Good work Goons, I hope they get to keep it all.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#537 - 2012-06-21 23:04:04 UTC
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:
this whole thread is tl:dr (did read the OP though)

so we have
1) Goons being Goons, finding a loophole in the system, and exploiting it to the nth degree
2) CCP patches Loophole
3) Goons make post of what they did
4) Pubbies cry that Goons exploited a loophole in the coding and rigged the markets, calls for bannings with thier pitchforks and torches. (ie. typical Thursday Evening in EVE online)

did I miss anything? :)



Pretty much except:
1. Your use of the word exploit is different to the meaning that CCP use it for.
2. Goons supposedly tried to pass information regarding loophole on to CCP prior to utlising current mechanics (evidenced by twitter post - claimed by aryth)
3. The tears have been pretty limited
4. Much of the thread is Goons making many posts.


I think most people, judging by the thread see this for what it is. Playing in the sandbox. Albeit in a very hardcore way. The issue with conveying a warning to CCP is, they have to understand the warning. If you are not a market person, the warning won't even make sense. It's a hard thing to convince someone that knows nothing about what you are talking about, that something is "a big deal". Especially since the next time the update ran, there was going to be an LP supernova.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#538 - 2012-06-21 23:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Karl Hobb
Gogela wrote:
More likely if action is taken against the goons the justification will be something along the lines of exploiting (I know... I know... but that's the argument they will use) and as precedent I would google the infinity gun exploit (which has been fixed) which was a problem with CCPs math (as in this case) in certain wormholes or more likely the issue they had where POS's were completing full moon goo mining cycles at down time if configured a certain way (don't know a lot about that one but that was a straight exploit and has also been fixed).

It'll probably be chalked up under some nebulous "against the spirit and intent of the game" argument, which is a fair assessment IMO, and CCP will be fully within their rights to take whatever actions they want to. In the meantime, let's enjoy this (literally) cool story, bro.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Ryunosuke Kusanagi
#539 - 2012-06-21 23:04:34 UTC
@Weaselior: Noted

@ ModeratedToSilence: Exploit: v. to take full advantage of. Other points noted.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#540 - 2012-06-21 23:07:42 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Gogela wrote:
More likely if action is taken against the goons the justification will be something along the lines of exploiting (I know... I know... but that's the argument they will use) and as precedent I would google the infinity gun exploit (which has been fixed) which was a problem with CCPs math (as in this case) in certain wormholes or more likely the issue they had where POS's were completing full moon goo mining cycles at down time if configured a certain way (don't know a lot about that one but that was a straight exploit and has also been fixed).

It'll probably be chalked up under some nebulous "against the spirit and intent of the game" argument, which is a fair assessment IMO, and CCP will be fully within their rights to take whatever actions they want to. In the meantime, let's enjoy this (literally) cool story, bro.

Agreed

Signatures should be used responsibly...