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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Kirtar Makanen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#361 - 2012-06-21 19:33:12 UTC
Agent Type wrote:
Good god. I am glad to hear CCP is doing some of investigation into the matter.. while I think it is great that players are able to use their intelligence and dedication to make huge amounts of ISK I would hate to see any issues cropping up in EVE online due to that amount of ISK being created in such a short period of time.

Someone didn't read very much. ISK was actually sunk when buying items from LP stores. Gains were made by selling items to players (no net generation of ISK) which even incurs sales tax/broker fees (sink)
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2012-06-21 19:33:51 UTC
MaCoola wrote:
First, I hate Goons. I always will probably and I really think they are ruining the game. But, I have to say I am honestly impressed at the depth you went and the meta-gaming you did on this. I liked Jita Burn and this, is just wow. Those involved have really worked hard and used a high degree of intelligence to do what you did. Truly impressive and while I despise you I will admit what you did was pretty cool and ingenuitive. Cool

Now, Back to hating. Twisted


We deliver content!

Seriously though. I think anyone that really looks at the history of Goondom will notice we are force for change in EVE. This has almost always been good changes. The ways in which we go about highlighting game mechanics that should change may indeed be quite dramatic and colorful and attention grabbing. But the end goal is what matters.

We have long since lost count of how many nerfs we have eaten when crashing some various EVE party's.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#363 - 2012-06-21 19:33:52 UTC
What's that, no links? Didn't think so. Cool

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Hustomte
Veritex Industrial Inc.
#364 - 2012-06-21 19:34:06 UTC
Pandemic Legion may be the PVP god's of Eve, but Goon Swarm are the Market PVP god's of Eve Pirate

...Signature...
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#365 - 2012-06-21 19:34:07 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Aryth wrote:
This also meant that we could cash out our hundreds of billions of ISK worth of minerals at prices far higher than on the market. For example, we cashed out Megacyte at 3300, Zydrine 1400, Nocxium at 900. So some of the very largest stockpiles of pre-drone nerf minerals no longer exists. Tying back into the mineral manipulation we have been engaging in.
The test quickly became even bigger than anticipated because upon release, FW turned out to have a bug that rewarded LP for both dropped and exploded cargo, doubling the rewards. So we went to work, sending hundreds of billions of ISK worth of highend minerals to Yulai to be blown up. Why Yulai? Anyone enlisted in faction warfare gets shot at by faction police of the opposing factions. Yulai and its entire constellation are owned by CONCORD, which is neutral territory. Thus, both FW alts could move through peacefully. Also, Yulai has an “Inner Circle” station, which was just plain funny. How fitting that Yulai, once the most important system in Eve, finally becomes relevant again.


Yulai, you say?

Interesting.

I'll have to go visit some time.


Step 1: Don't have either character's kill-log API on eve-kill
Step 2:

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#366 - 2012-06-21 19:34:57 UTC
Hustomte wrote:
Pandemic Legion may be the PVP god's of Eve, but Goon Swarm are the Market PVP god's of Eve Pirate


Once we post the killmails we'll be the undisputed isk destroying Gods of eve

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
AureoBroker
Perkone
Caldari State
#367 - 2012-06-21 19:35:33 UTC
Dear CCP:
Next time you do this, phone up Akita T and VV.
Or better, hire them as economists.
thanks.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#368 - 2012-06-21 19:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Many of us FW vets tried to warn CCP that this sort of war zone control set up and LP payout left FW wide open to be manipulated and farmed by out side groups to make billions of ISK while not taking part in FW as a whole.

I pretty much figured Goons would be the ones to do it, but I must admit you guys impressed me with thinking out side the box and doing it in a much more intelligent way than I expected. Props for finding a hole in the system that it appears no one else noticed..

I just assumed you guys would send hundreds of farmer alts to farm LP the hard way and flip the war zone control to allow massive amounts of LP farming. That however leaves the profits in the hands of anyone that wasn't at the right place & right time.

The way you guys did it was pretty smart keeping the bulk of the long term profits to yourselves aside from guys whom happened to be around at the right time.. (luckily I was online when you guys did your final dump and I cashed out the LP's I had stashed away for a rainy day at tier V)

Btw I'm not sure why CCP is threatening to remove any gained ISK. You guys simply manipulated the market to turn a very large profit. It's not like you used any sort of cheating or inside info. This was something CCP left open and you took advantage of it.
Uyeiu
Doomheim
#369 - 2012-06-21 19:35:54 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
stuff i don't care about, except for Simetraz's sig

Leonard Cohen's "Everybody Knows" is so perfect for EVE (at least the first few verses). I never thought about it before. It also makes a good "goons control eve" song (and also does well when interpreted as an ironic commentary on tinfoilism).
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#370 - 2012-06-21 19:36:34 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
Dear CCP:
Next time you do this, phone up Akita T and VV.
Or better, hire them as economists.
thanks.

yeah i could use some more holes to jump through like this one

definitely hire vv

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#371 - 2012-06-21 19:37:10 UTC
Agent Type wrote:
Good god. I am glad to hear CCP is doing some of investigation into the matter.. while I think it is great that players are able to use their intelligence and dedication to make huge amounts of ISK I would hate to see any issues cropping up in EVE online due to that amount of ISK being created in such a short period of time.

As a newer player and fellow member of FW I do find something like this a little disconcerting. I traded my first two months of the game to make some billions of ISK. It was a lot of work, took me time finding items, shipping, updating, etc. I was happy to do it as I felt I was making a large amount more money then an average player, while not investing a ton of time into the game (compared to if I were doing missions). Knowing that another group was printing trillions of ISK while I slaved to make my billions is rather annoying.

That said, someone said it in one of the posts on the first page... things like this really show that some people are playing this game on an entirely different level. For that, well done!

Edit: As a member of Fweddit (FW) I completely noticed the upgrading of systems. Woke up one morning to see all of our systems in V and though "Who the hell would waste 2 mill LP on that?". I am quite excited to be able to do FW without you boosting the Minmatar faction.. should be fun! They went down to T3 for the first time since I had joined FW.


You are not understanding the mechanics. No ISK was created. Wealth was transferred. There is a rather large distinction. If we had been printing ISK by selling to NPC buy orders, yes, that would have been truly gamebreaking. This was an ISK sink due to LP store costs.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#372 - 2012-06-21 19:37:26 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
Dear CCP:
Next time you do this, phone up Akita T and VV.
Or better, hire them as economists.
thanks.


Hokey charts and :words: are no match for a good Goon at your side, kid.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
Pyrus Octavius
Flat Earth Believers
#373 - 2012-06-21 19:37:59 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Many of us FW vets tried to warn CCP that this sort of war zone control set up and LP payout left FW wide open to be manipulated and farmed by out side groups to make billions of ISK while not taking part in FW as a whole.

I pretty much figured Goons would be the ones to do it, but I must admit you guys impressed me with thinking out side the box and doing it in a much more intelligent way than I expected. Props for finding a whole in the systems that it appears no one else noticed..

I just assumed you guys would send hundreds of farmer alts to farm LP the hard way and flip the war zone control to allow massive amounts of LP farming. That however leaves the profits in the hands of anyone that wasn't at the right place & right time.

The way you guys did it was pretty smart keeping the bulk of the long term profits to yourselves aside from guys whom happened to be around at the right time.. (luckily I was online when you guys did your final dump and I cashed out the LP's I had stashed away for a rainy day at tier V)


Um, I believe the correct spelling is, "hole". Which mean's something completely different than, "whole". Just sayin.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#374 - 2012-06-21 19:39:53 UTC
AureoBroker wrote:
Dear CCP:
Next time you do this, phone up Aryth.
Or better, hire him as an economist.
thanks.


ftfy

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Mithfindel
Zenko Incorporated
#375 - 2012-06-21 19:40:43 UTC
I think this is a nice moment to have a nice laugh at the haters and to give a really slow clap to Aryth & crew. You magnificent bastards.
Serptimis
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#376 - 2012-06-21 19:40:56 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Agent Type wrote:
Good god. I am glad to hear CCP is doing some of investigation into the matter.. while I think it is great that players are able to use their intelligence and dedication to make huge amounts of ISK I would hate to see any issues cropping up in EVE online due to that amount of ISK being created in such a short period of time.

As a newer player and fellow member of FW I do find something like this a little disconcerting. I traded my first two months of the game to make some billions of ISK. It was a lot of work, took me time finding items, shipping, updating, etc. I was happy to do it as I felt I was making a large amount more money then an average player, while not investing a ton of time into the game (compared to if I were doing missions). Knowing that another group was printing trillions of ISK while I slaved to make my billions is rather annoying.

That said, someone said it in one of the posts on the first page... things like this really show that some people are playing this game on an entirely different level. For that, well done!

Edit: As a member of Fweddit (FW) I completely noticed the upgrading of systems. Woke up one morning to see all of our systems in V and though "Who the hell would waste 2 mill LP on that?". I am quite excited to be able to do FW without you boosting the Minmatar faction.. should be fun! They went down to T3 for the first time since I had joined FW.


You are not understanding the mechanics. No ISK was created. Wealth was transferred. There is a rather large distinction. If we had been printing ISK by selling to NPC buy orders, yes, that would have been truly gamebreaking. This was an ISK sink due to LP store costs.

True, but you walked away 5T richer and made me realise the fact that no matter how long i play this game, compared to some, i'll always be an unknowlegdeable noob Smile
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#377 - 2012-06-21 19:40:58 UTC
Aryth wrote:
This was an ISK sink due to LP store costs.

You've done EVE a service. Thank you.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Heinrich Rotwang
Spectre Fleet Corporation
#378 - 2012-06-21 19:42:00 UTC
Once more the whole get-it-in-the-ass-and-still-ask-for-more Eve Community got pnwed by the incredible Goons.
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#379 - 2012-06-21 19:42:58 UTC
Jennam Musana wrote:
Hastily made changes to the game code to plug the exploit might cause CONCORD to relocate themselves to Goonswarm space until the conveniently destructive mistake, after a thorough investigation to the erratically behaving aforementioned installment, in the program code is found and returned to the previous state *suspicious glances*.


Like that mattered all weekend long in Jita.
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#380 - 2012-06-21 19:43:53 UTC
What's funny is that this can literally fund another 400 months of Hulkageddon