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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Are we safe in bad ways? (REVISED)

Author
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#41 - 2012-06-19 17:50:56 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Actually I am an engineer. I also have a talent with systems, where I absorb how they operate over time.

From that, I know what happens to one part when a change happens in another.

So you're like that guy in heroes that sticks his hand in that cheerleader's head?

Sorta, if you allow that to be a cinematic exaggeration of epic scale.

Same logic would take a real life martial artist, and extend that to evolve into the characters from Mortal Kombat.

If I study a system long enough, I end up with a basic working model in my head. I think anyone who works with something long enough does similar things. (IE: a car mechanic can listen to a sound an engine makes, and get an idea where to look for it's source)
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#42 - 2012-06-19 17:52:56 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Actually I am an engineer. I also have a talent with systems, where I absorb how they operate over time.

From that, I know what happens to one part when a change happens in another.

So you're like that guy in heroes that sticks his hand in that cheerleader's head?

Sorta, if you allow that to be a cinematic exaggeration of epic scale.

Same logic would take a real life martial artist, and extend that to evolve into the characters from Mortal Kombat.

If I study a system long enough, I end up with a basic working model in my head. I think anyone who works with something long enough does similar things. (IE: a car mechanic can listen to a sound an engine makes, and get an idea where to look for it's source)

Surely the sound is coming from the engine?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#43 - 2012-06-19 17:59:48 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Actually I am an engineer. I also have a talent with systems, where I absorb how they operate over time.

From that, I know what happens to one part when a change happens in another.

So you're like that guy in heroes that sticks his hand in that cheerleader's head?

Sorta, if you allow that to be a cinematic exaggeration of epic scale.

Same logic would take a real life martial artist, and extend that to evolve into the characters from Mortal Kombat.

If I study a system long enough, I end up with a basic working model in my head. I think anyone who works with something long enough does similar things. (IE: a car mechanic can listen to a sound an engine makes, and get an idea where to look for it's source)

Surely the sound is coming from the engine?

In a way of putting it, yes. But since replacing a map sensor is a cheaper solve than replacing the engine, we push the poor mechanics to just grab the broken part.
(Ok, grab is bad, too hot and dirty in many cases, don't do it!)

LOL :)
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#44 - 2012-06-19 18:04:17 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
In a way of putting it, yes. But since replacing a map sensor is a cheaper solve than replacing the engine, we push the poor mechanics to just grab the broken part.
(Ok, grab is bad, too hot and dirty in many cases, don't do it!)

LOL :)

Buy a new car.

Problem solved.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#45 - 2012-06-19 21:32:18 UTC

I re-read your prososal, as most of my rebuttles were to your general idea, and not your specific mechanics. The mechanics you suggested have a problem:

1.) It sounds like your suggestion includes an NPC caravans that freighters isk for the players.... And it does so in a fashion where players can raid it!!??!!!???

NPC protection is NOT protection, and hence anytime the cargo becomes worth the price of ganking, it will be ganked!!! Furthermore, your 10m isk insurance creates an enormous amount of free isk!! For example, say I'm a Machiavellian leader of some 2000 character coalliton. Every Friday I have them each transfer 10m insured isk between Jita and VFK-IV. We form up a large gang and nuke the convoy, looting up to the 20b isk it's transfering. All the characters get their isk back because it's insured, and the alliance gets essentially free isk loot. NPC's are predictable, exploitable, and offer no real protection!!! Do this 6 days a week and suddenly the someone will start blobbing with titans!!!

2.) How does ISK enter the game with your changes? I take it rather than bounties, we have isk drop from rats?? Suddenly sharing bounties with your fleet members becomes tedious with this change. This also localizes the isk faucets to ratting systems and missioning systems. If the localization is strong enough, I'm sure you will help that location be a market hub (which they ALREADY ARE).

Nikk Narrel wrote:

It will create more distributed trading hubs, and existing hubs will be reduced by obvious high value targets becoming too big to resist. (The Jita ISK convoy was robbed again!)


I don't think you you have a clue how this will alter current market hubs. Why would they grow smaller?? In my opinion, this will probably quadruple the size of Jita, not make it smaller!!!

Nikk Narrel wrote:

It adds a sense of size to the game, and gives freight moving a bigger role.


The freighter already has a huge role in the game. How do you think goods are moved around as it is??? Yes, this creates more things that need to be moved around (isk cells), but truly the "destinations" people will freighter to will be limited to isk sources (missioning systems) and isk hubs (Jita).

Currently, you have the migration of people and the migration of goods, and to this your adding the migration of isk too. Please, realize this is what your proposal is doing: It is LIMITING the geographical position where supply and demand can interact. For people that sell goods, this means there are fewer locations you can setup shop. Migration of people through an area isn't enough, they ahve to migrate isk too. Do you know it's convenience that creates the largets profit margins in this game. It's convenience that creates the disparity in prices throughout the universe. For convenience to happen, you need goods people want, in the place they want them, and they need the resources to purchase them!!!!! Your idea severely limits the convenience market because having goods where people need them isn't enough anymore, those people suddenly have to have the forsight to bring isk with them too (which is NOT convenient)!!!

Nikk Narrel wrote:

It gives opportunity for real theft and piracy, since it would become cost effective for corps and alliances to move their own funds.


You destroy the concept of ransoms, as people wont have access to their isk while they are being pirated (which is the traditional way pirates make money in EvE)!! (note: I suppose you could create a new contract to remotely transfer isk, and rectify this).

Nikk Narrel wrote:

New diffusion effects!:
As currency transport is not always going to be the most practical answer, demand for goods in outlying areas will draw in logistic services to bring goods to where the ISK can be found.

-- Supply and Demand already insures people ship goods to the areas people can/will buy them!!!!!!!!! You're just limiting the areas where peole CAN BUY!!!! How do you not realize this, and if you do, what possible makes you think this is a good thing????


Nick, you come across as creating a plethora of new juicy targets that market forces insure are moving high-value goods between Points A and B. And I think you're giddy at the possiblity of players shooting and looting them as a new playstyle.... Guess what... you're pie-in-the-sky targets ALREADY EXIST. Look at moongoo caravans, which happen now!!! Every week alliances move a TRILLION isk worth of moongoo from nullsec/lowsec moon mining operations to market hubs using gankable, player operated logistics (which is superior to NPC hauling in EVERY HEALTHY WAY). Rather than this isk transport farce, I think it's much, much more ideal to make safe transport of moongoo a little bit less safe....

Nikk Narrel wrote:

New type of profession this would inspire: Armored ISK Transporting
Similar to freight services, except focused on transporting the ISK cells.

Your not creating anything new here... If you can't intercept a hauler full of tech moon goo, how do you expect to intercept a hauler full of isk?????

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#46 - 2012-06-19 22:50:15 UTC
You have some interesting questions again. I will limit this to just the questions as much as possible.

If I missed something, or failed to specify the way you think is needed, please point it out.
(I was rushed a bit due to time)
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
I re-read your prososal, as most of my rebuttles were to your general idea, and not your specific mechanics. The mechanics you suggested have a problem:

1.) It sounds like your suggestion includes an NPC caravans that freighters isk for the players.... And it does so in a fashion where players can raid it!!??!!!???

Not necessarily NPC caravans the way you are describing. Anytime the player's ISK is being transported, the intention is to create powerful NPC fleets to guard it. The idea here is that the value of the ISK being carried should be less than the cost of the ships needed to rob them.

I can see your point here on the details, it is possible that this could be exploited. I will modify that element to be qualified by CCP regarding this, possibly to only allow uninsured ISK to be risked in a way that would allow for such theft.
(The insurance is to pay for a Concord escort or something, which usually means in DEV terms "Don't even bother trying")

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
2.) How does ISK enter the game with your changes? I take it rather than bounties, we have isk drop from rats?? Suddenly sharing bounties with your fleet members becomes tedious with this change. This also localizes the isk faucets to ratting systems and missioning systems. If the localization is strong enough, I'm sure you will help that location be a market hub (which they ALREADY ARE).

I don't think you you have a clue how this will alter current market hubs. Why would they grow smaller?? In my opinion, this will probably quadruple the size of Jita, not make it smaller!!!

Oh, not like that at all. I see no reason to change that system to use direct ISK drops. Wouldn't make sense, really, having some guy carrying the reward ISK on him for the guy who killed him.

As for the hubs, ISK can go from any station in the source region, to any station in the destination region. When you buy things in Jita, you don't need the ISK actually in that system, it just needs to be in the region, "The Forge".
The existing market system lets you buy inside the region.



Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
The freighter already has a huge role in the game. How do you think goods are moved around as it is??? Yes, this creates more things that need to be moved around (isk cells), but truly the "destinations" people will freighter to will be limited to isk sources (missioning systems) and isk hubs (Jita).

Currently, you have the migration of people and the migration of goods, and to this your adding the migration of isk too. Please, realize this is what your proposal is doing: It is LIMITING the geographical position where supply and demand can interact. For people that sell goods, this means there are fewer locations you can setup shop. Migration of people through an area isn't enough, they ahve to migrate isk too. Do you know it's convenience that creates the largets profit margins in this game. It's convenience that creates the disparity in prices throughout the universe. For convenience to happen, you need goods people want, in the place they want them, and they need the resources to purchase them!!!!! Your idea severely limits the convenience market because having goods where people need them isn't enough anymore, those people suddenly have to have the forsight to bring isk with them too (which is NOT convenient)!!!

You destroy the concept of ransoms, as people wont have access to their isk while they are being pirated (which is the traditional way pirates make money in EvE)!! (note: I suppose you could create a new contract to remotely transfer isk, and rectify this).


I am thinking the details of goods migration will be affected by regional isolation. I expect there to be a trade hub in each region as a result.
I don't think they will all be the same size, but that they will be bigger where there are more people.

As to the ransom idea, creating a contract sounds like a really good idea. It could be conditional on the pilot surviving for a term before being killed by the ISK recipient. (Bob must not be killed for a period of 3 hours, or until he docks, whichever comes first) This would turn the pirate into an escort to get the ransomee safe so the contract could be completed.
You should propose that, I like it.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#47 - 2012-06-21 00:26:51 UTC

You have me confused....

So, isk transfers now take isk from one region to another... Not to stations, but to regions????

I really think you need to step back, organize your thoughts, and explain what you're proposing, because I don't see a coherent picture at the moment.


I really thought your goal is to create isk transports you can attack and loot. I pointed out, that over a TRILLION isk worth of moongoo is moved to/from POS's to market hubs every week, and those are the "isk transports" that you should be trying to attack and loot.

I also thought your goal is to somehow create new market hubs, but you're logic behind how your proposal will accomplish this is skewed and from my perspective, faulty.

Finally, it sounded like you wanted to improve the realism of the game by eliminating the "Universal" Banking system, and replace it with a localized versions that you shipped isk into/out of. Most people believe that mechanic changes just for the sake of realism isn't worth the added complexity and hastles you're thrusting on people!!
Jackal Datapaw
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-06-21 04:39:38 UTC
Wait, I do have a question, what college, or tech school let you get your psychology degree with engineering classes, or vis-versa, cause I want to go there!
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#49 - 2012-06-21 04:59:42 UTC
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Wait, I do have a question, what college, or tech school let you get your psychology degree with engineering classes, or vis-versa, cause I want to go there!

Seriously, the guy has to be a troll:

Rain Man wrote:
Actually I am an engineer. I also have a talent with systems, where I absorb how they operate over time.

From that, I know what happens to one part when a change happens in another.

Like many folk with any ability like that, it is easy to forget not everyone can do this. We judge each other too often by our own standards, filling in the blanks with details copied from ourselves. Many of you folks probably don't own two cats either.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#50 - 2012-06-21 16:08:37 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

You have me confused....

So, isk transfers now take isk from one region to another... Not to stations, but to regions????

Allow me to clarify.

In order to have ISK available at a station, presumably to purchase market items, you do not need ISK at that station. Our market system is already configured for remote purchasing. You can see any item for sale in your region from your market tab. (You don't even need to be docked at a station, just in the region to see it).

I am specifying, that by putting your ISK in it's hangar / vault (however they describe it), you make it available to use in that region as a whole.

Yes, the ISK is at a specific station. The Market interconnects all stations in a region, allowing you to use ISK from any station in said region.

No confusion on my part, but I can see the idea did not convey clearly before now, based on your reply.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
I also thought your goal is to somehow create new market hubs, but you're logic behind how your proposal will accomplish this is skewed and from my perspective, faulty.

Finally, it sounded like you wanted to improve the realism of the game by eliminating the "Universal" Banking system, and replace it with a localized versions that you shipped isk into/out of. Most people believe that mechanic changes just for the sake of realism isn't worth the added complexity and hastles you're thrusting on people!!

It will create new market hubs.

As previously described, since each region's market is already separated by game mechanics, this just makes it necessary to transport the ISK to the region desired.

As for complexity and hassles, no need. Automation can be used with this as well. CCP can very simply leave a taxed ISK sink in place with inter-regional ISK use.

Ever notice how in some remote areas of the game products are sold for several times what they could be had for in others?
A shuttle in one market might be only 6,000 ISK... but that same shuttle could easily sell for 50,000 in a second location.

Now, lets say your ISK is not in the local region. For a percentage use fee, a transfer can be made. These emergency purchases must sometimes be made, they understand.
(CCP would simply place a fee on ISK used from other regions, making it worth the effort to move the ISK or buy locally to it)

Real life example for analogy: Ever see the ATM machines at resort or theme parks? They charge you normally a flat fee that is something you would never choose to pay. Even in convenience stores you can often spot a little ATM, which for a nominal fee gives you use of your own money.

Kinda makes you wish you planned ahead and visited your own ATM, but what can you do? You would lose all that time leaving and traveling there and back again...

And an ISK sink appears.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#51 - 2012-06-21 16:21:22 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Wait, I do have a question, what college, or tech school let you get your psychology degree with engineering classes, or vis-versa, cause I want to go there!

You are seriously stuck on my ability to do this? I confess surprise at this.

As to psychology, no formal training, or claim to any. You just pick up things over time from people, and patterns become noticeable. People making assumptions about each other is very common, live long enough and you will see it too often to miss, if you watch closely. The usual thing I see is people fill in the blanks about others with details about themselves.

Ever notice how people give friends gifts that they wish they would get themselves? (Barring of course having an actual awareness of what they wanted, like a xmas list or something)
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Seriously, the guy has to be a troll:

Rain Man wrote:
Actually I am an engineer. I also have a talent with systems, where I absorb how they operate over time.

From that, I know what happens to one part when a change happens in another.

Like many folk with any ability like that, it is easy to forget not everyone can do this. We judge each other too often by our own standards, filling in the blanks with details copied from ourselves. Many of you folks probably don't own two cats either.

A part of me wants to take that as a back-handed compliment.

I think you are saying you find this ability rare or unusual.

Thanks... I think...?
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#52 - 2012-06-21 19:06:04 UTC
Our ISK is already not safe from hackers. Watch as someone magically takes it out of your wallet, even to negatives!!



Oh wait... thats CCP. And only happens when you do bad things.
Dave Stark
#53 - 2012-06-21 19:10:47 UTC
i have this magic thing called a debit card, i don't need to physically carry my cash with me. now, am i mistaken in thinking this game is set in some distant future? if so, why would currency transfer technology regress?

hell, my debit card doesn't even need to be swiped by a machine any more, i can just put it near the machine and this "contactless technology" thing does all the magic for me. no need for a pin number, no need for me to put cards in slots, it's amazing.

yet in a future that involves space travel, we still gotta carry a wad of paper in our back pockets. ok.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#54 - 2012-06-21 19:31:54 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
i have this magic thing called a debit card, i don't need to physically carry my cash with me. now, am i mistaken in thinking this game is set in some distant future? if so, why would currency transfer technology regress?

hell, my debit card doesn't even need to be swiped by a machine any more, i can just put it near the machine and this "contactless technology" thing does all the magic for me. no need for a pin number, no need for me to put cards in slots, it's amazing.

yet in a future that involves space travel, we still gotta carry a wad of paper in our back pockets. ok.

Who said anything about technology regressing?

This is greed making progress, and creating excuses to charge you for services.

Every time you use your debit card, someone is paying for that use above and beyond what is actually being paid for the product and or service you purchase. The selling party usually shoulders this charge, but they pass it onto the buyers of course.

Well, when you want to put ISK into one region, but don't use markets there, they want to still take a cut of your money. If you simply move it yourself, they can't do much... but you assume the risks of moving ISK yourself then.

They want you to pay transfer fees, like banks do.

They want to charge access fees if you use your ISK from another region.

They want your ISK.
Dave Stark
#55 - 2012-06-21 19:41:51 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i have this magic thing called a debit card, i don't need to physically carry my cash with me. now, am i mistaken in thinking this game is set in some distant future? if so, why would currency transfer technology regress?

hell, my debit card doesn't even need to be swiped by a machine any more, i can just put it near the machine and this "contactless technology" thing does all the magic for me. no need for a pin number, no need for me to put cards in slots, it's amazing.

yet in a future that involves space travel, we still gotta carry a wad of paper in our back pockets. ok.

Who said anything about technology regressing?

This is greed making progress, and creating excuses to charge you for services.

Every time you use your debit card, someone is paying for that use above and beyond what is actually being paid for the product and or service you purchase. The selling party usually shoulders this charge, but they pass it onto the buyers of course.

Well, when you want to put ISK into one region, but don't use markets there, they want to still take a cut of your money. If you simply move it yourself, they can't do much... but you assume the risks of moving ISK yourself then.

They want you to pay transfer fees, like banks do.

They want to charge access fees if you use your ISK from another region.

They want your ISK.



why don't you just cut out the awful ideas and just increase the market transaction fee/tax thing? that's all you really want to do here.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#56 - 2012-06-21 19:57:37 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
why don't you just cut out the awful ideas and just increase the market transaction fee/tax thing? that's all you really want to do here.

Because players should be able to avoid the fee by making appropriate efforts.

Effort always should have the opportunity for reward, and this is no different.

You want to avoid paying a real life bank a transfer fee? Then go to it's ATM, and withdraw the cash, and go to the other bank's ATM and deposit it. Done! (Analogy obviously reflects two separate banking companies, not branches of the same bank)
'Bank A' wants you to use their card, but if you won't, they can at least nail you a fee to transfer to 'Bank B'.

Same theory.

And why?

A region pays a bounty, or supports concord's presence, or whatever they do to be able to claim SOV, they don't want to lose ISK to purchases in other regions.
Every broker's fee paid in Jita does nothing to profit the brokers or governments except in Jita. Now, this makes 'The Forge' happy, since it is in their region. Foreign ISK rushing in to pay their percentages in brokers fees.

The Caldari are loving every ISK. Makes perfect sense, as they are corporate oriented more than the other empires.
Dave Stark
#57 - 2012-06-21 20:10:33 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
why don't you just cut out the awful ideas and just increase the market transaction fee/tax thing? that's all you really want to do here.

Because players should be able to avoid the fee by making appropriate efforts.

Effort always should have the opportunity for reward, and this is no different.

You want to avoid paying a real life bank a transfer fee? Then go to it's ATM, and withdraw the cash, and go to the other bank's ATM and deposit it. Done! (Analogy obviously reflects two separate banking companies, not branches of the same bank)
'Bank A' wants you to use their card, but if you won't, they can at least nail you a fee to transfer to 'Bank B'.

Same theory.

And why?

A region pays a bounty, or supports concord's presence, or whatever they do to be able to claim SOV, they don't want to lose ISK to purchases in other regions.
Every broker's fee paid in Jita does nothing to profit the brokers or governments except in Jita. Now, this makes 'The Forge' happy, since it is in their region. Foreign ISK rushing in to pay their percentages in brokers fees.

The Caldari are loving every ISK. Makes perfect sense, as they are corporate oriented more than the other empires.


banking transfer fees? what kind of ****** banks do you bank with? i bank with three different banks and none of them charge me for moving cash from one bank to another, some thing i do frequently to hide money from people like the government.

also the time it takes to move cash around, it's cheaper to just pay the tax, especially if you're ratting in null and you're buying in jita. it's a bad idea, and you should feel bad.

all this idea will do is introduce yet another tax and will be thoroughly pointless. most people will have all their isk in jita or just pay the tax because it's more isk/hr to pay the tax and go back to making isk with whatever they were doing.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#58 - 2012-06-21 20:12:51 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

In order to have ISK available at a station, presumably to purchase market items, you do not need ISK at that station. Our market system is already configured for remote purchasing. You can see any item for sale in your region from your market tab. (You don't even need to be docked at a station, just in the region to see it).


Nick, go back and read you first post.... none of this is conveyed!!! I have no doubt you have a grand idea in your head, anyone else tring to follow this discussion will just see a bunch of mostly incoherent ramblings and scribblings. Please, create a full picture for us, update it to the first post, and that can be discussed. Otherwise, don't present it as "Isn't this idea neat", present it as: These are concepts I see in real life or other games that might be implementable in EvE. And ASK for ideas on how to implement them.

Seriously, this is a thorough the TL;DR; of your initial post:

  • Lets create an ingame currency items that can be transported.
  • This adds risk to moving isk between regions.
  • We have to modify the current banking system so transporting is necessary.
  • NPC's can play a role in the transfer of isk between regions.
  • Transfers can be insured, and transfer fees will be necessary.

  • The goal is to make NPC isk transfers costly and or unsafe enough to encourage players to regularly transport isk between regions, thereby creating new targets.


If someone bothers to read all of the posts, they will get more bits and pieces of the image floating in your mind, but nowhere is this idea clearly conveyed!!!

At this point, your proclamation of new targets, new markets, and new opportunities feels as meaningful as the "Change we can believe in" slogan of Chicago Politicians!!!
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#59 - 2012-06-21 20:25:28 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
banking transfer fees? what kind of ****** banks do you bank with? i bank with three different banks and none of them charge me for moving cash from one bank to another, some thing i do frequently to hide money from people like the government.

Not certain which country you live in. I live in Florida, in the US.
Bank of Ameri-something will charge you transfer fees.
The bank whose name sounds like Wells _argo will also do this. So will Chased.
(The first two recently reached an exclusive agreement to do specific 'no cost' transfers between each other)

Dave stark wrote:
also the time it takes to move cash around, it's cheaper to just pay the tax, especially if you're ratting in null and you're buying in jita. it's a bad idea, and you should feel bad.

A lot of people will pay the transfer fees or the direct purchase use fee. (Recently clarified a point to Giznite that involved this)
It is certainly easier to do this, and many will do that.

Many will also want to save some ISK, and make a transfer to the region where they are buying, and save that money. They will be risking losing it to others along the way, but this is a theme of the game.

Why should I feel bad?

Dave stark wrote:
all this idea will do is introduce yet another tax and will be thoroughly pointless. most people will have all their isk in jita or just pay the tax because it's more isk/hr to pay the tax and go back to making isk with whatever they were doing.

You may only be seeing half the picture.

Consider a cargo moving player, who makes ISK based on freighter ops, or other generalized cargo logistics. They constantly monitor prices and activity on the market, so they can see what needs to be where.

They will jump all over any chance to move serious cargo. Think about how many people do research on major ISK purchases... those places where something sells for a lot can be undercut from moving from where the same goods sell for less.

It can and will happen, whenever opportunity arises. And this would create a LOT of opportunity...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#60 - 2012-06-21 20:29:50 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:

In order to have ISK available at a station, presumably to purchase market items, you do not need ISK at that station. Our market system is already configured for remote purchasing. You can see any item for sale in your region from your market tab. (You don't even need to be docked at a station, just in the region to see it).


Nick, go back and read you first post.... none of this is conveyed!!! I have no doubt you have a grand idea in your head, anyone else tring to follow this discussion will just see a bunch of mostly incoherent ramblings and scribblings. Please, create a full picture for us, update it to the first post, and that can be discussed. Otherwise, don't present it as "Isn't this idea neat", present it as: These are concepts I see in real life or other games that might be implementable in EvE. And ASK for ideas on how to implement them.

Seriously, this is a thorough the TL;DR; of your initial post:

  • Lets create an ingame currency items that can be transported.
  • This adds risk to moving isk between regions.
  • We have to modify the current banking system so transporting is necessary.
  • NPC's can play a role in the transfer of isk between regions.
  • Transfers can be insured, and transfer fees will be necessary.

  • The goal is to make NPC isk transfers costly and or unsafe enough to encourage players to regularly transport isk between regions, thereby creating new targets.


If someone bothers to read all of the posts, they will get more bits and pieces of the image floating in your mind, but nowhere is this idea clearly conveyed!!!

At this point, your proclamation of new targets, new markets, and new opportunities feels as meaningful as the "Change we can believe in" slogan of Chicago Politicians!!!

Yes.. I see what you mean.

In microcosm you and the others have helped me beta test the idea, and it has evolved aspects the OP just doesn't do proper justice.

Let me fix that, will let everyone know once finished.