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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#261 - 2012-06-21 18:32:29 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
corestwo wrote:
We'd argue that there was no exploit (unlike things in the past like the Ferrogel dupe), merely an intended mechanic stretched to a legitimate extreme, but we're clearly biased.


i'd argue the same thing, seems pretty much all developers do this when they let some thing slip through the net. instead of just saying "yeah we missed it, bravo for noticing and making the best of it" they go on a some kind of crusade fueled by their own embarrassment, it happened to blizzard activision with their latest major content patch.

We'll see.

Regardless, we're part of Eve history.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#262 - 2012-06-21 18:32:38 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Pisov viet wrote:
Quote:

I would strongly suggest, that if you want to hit T5 again. You do it before Amarr grind down the fortress. You guys are still benefiting a great deal from our work. Once they grind down all your 5'ed systems, it's probably game over for you

Confirming this. If nothing else change, minmatar will hold 56 systems after tomorrow's DT, which, once upgraded, will get them just enough to get in T5, maybe one last time before amarr starts ******* them up.


This assumes that "Goon manipulation" is the reason we've held 56 systems in the first place. Lol All the Goons are claiming to do is to have propped up the WZ control level with their invested LP. That doesnt mean that the Amarr are necessarily going to suddenly surge forward now that our "backers" are gone. They lost all their space long before this manipulation ever took place. It's not like the easy money has anything to do with why we are winning the territory war. If Goons were claiming to have rolled hundreds of plexing alts into the militia to grind system captures, that would be a different case entirely, but they're not.

Also, the end of manipulation of the WZ control doesn't make Tier 5 a suddenly impossible achievement. It takes several million LP to invest every one of 56 systems to level V, this is easily earned by a handful of individual pilots investing an afternoon's worth of work. In other words, Goons are *not* the only ones capable of a coordinated pooling of LP upgrades by any means.

That is true, minmatar was picked because you were already owning amarr (probably due to speedtanking though).

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#263 - 2012-06-21 18:32:54 UTC
Aja Jinn wrote:

So, What are you goons going to do with all the trillions of EVE Online space bucks?
Will you be wearing special custom made space clothes? Titans for everyone?
Gold plated rifters? How will we Know your specialness?


They could pay for 20 defensive allies in the Inferno 1.1 wardec system for 2 weeks!

The best use for 5 trillion ISK

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#264 - 2012-06-21 18:32:56 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
This is classic - how quickly CCP was boasting about the changes to Factional Warfare and the destruction of it by the Goons. After reading the opening threads, I can see CCP babbling "Abababababa..." with Goons following up with "Porkchop sandwiches!!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1BDM1oBRJ8



LOL @ Goons "destroying Faction Warfare"

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#265 - 2012-06-21 18:35:25 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
This is classic - how quickly CCP was boasting about the changes to Factional Warfare and the destruction of it by the Goons. After reading the opening threads, I can see CCP babbling "Abababababa..." with Goons following up with "Porkchop sandwiches!!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1BDM1oBRJ8



LOL @ Goons "destroying Faction Warfare"

Nah, more like Goons using FW to make dudes rich as **** while scrublords throw t1 **** at each other and preen about how influential they are.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#266 - 2012-06-21 18:35:30 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,


At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. Don’t be That Guy.



By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.


OP admits that his alliance broke the EULA by exploiting.

Again.

And CCP lets them stay.

And its directly because you cant afford to ban them.

Absolutely disgusting.

Consider me unsubbed.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#267 - 2012-06-21 18:35:48 UTC
CCP should correct this by undoing this whole scam and blatant abuse.


CCP Sreegs is on the right track.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#268 - 2012-06-21 18:36:39 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

Consider me unsubbed.

this day just keeps getting better and better

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Dave Stark
#269 - 2012-06-21 18:37:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
infact, is it my imagination or does the topic of this thread pretty much mimic the current UK news story about jimmy carr?
Blawrf McTaggart
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#270 - 2012-06-21 18:37:18 UTC
Roxwar wrote:
After reading the actual post and seeing the screenies ect of the final fat wallet amounts, i decided to see how much 'real money' the total made comes out to roughly.

Based on it costing £22 per 1b if bought via 60day GTC, Those magnificent goons are sitting on approx £7,744,000 worth of isk if bought with GTC's. Thats right, thats 7.75 MILLION POUNDS worth of internet spaceship money. Shocked or approx 11.6 million dollars .


However you look at this, be that for or against, you have to admit, only in EVE can something like this happen, and thats why i love this game.

I tip my hat to all you goon geeks that came up with this scheme, bravo fine sirs, BRAVO.


do you work for ccp's economy department?
AureoBroker
Perkone
Caldari State
#271 - 2012-06-21 18:37:19 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
AureoBroker wrote:
Oh, and while to a certain extent this would've been awesome, it'll probably check out in CCP's books.
Bans are unlikely, but you'll get everything reversed.
And possibly even the LPs you'd legitimately should have.
(Seriously, at CCP no one thought about market manipulation? should've been goddamn obvious)

If they reverse the transactions, they break the sandbox for alot of people. Most of the Minmatar militia who had no idea what was happening, for a start.

And if they only target Goons, then they have to deal with the PR nightmare of looking like they have a vendetta against a group of players.

They'll reverse anything that has started in the trail of any manipulated item's demise, and that'd be it.
Minerals will be probably left alone.
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#272 - 2012-06-21 18:37:34 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
OP admits that his alliance broke the EULA by exploiting.

Again.

And CCP lets them stay.

And its directly because you cant afford to ban them.

Absolutely disgusting.

Consider me unsubbed.

Don't you unsub like every other week because goons did a thing? I can swear you said the same **** for burn jita and the gallente ice interdictions.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2012-06-21 18:37:35 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Pisov viet wrote:
Quote:

I would strongly suggest, that if you want to hit T5 again. You do it before Amarr grind down the fortress. You guys are still benefiting a great deal from our work. Once they grind down all your 5'ed systems, it's probably game over for you

Confirming this. If nothing else change, minmatar will hold 56 systems after tomorrow's DT, which, once upgraded, will get them just enough to get in T5, maybe one last time before amarr starts ******* them up.


This assumes that "Goon manipulation" is the reason we've held 56 systems in the first place. Lol All the Goons are claiming to do is to have propped up the WZ control level with their invested LP. That doesnt mean that the Amarr are necessarily going to suddenly surge forward now that our "backers" are gone. They lost all their space long before this manipulation ever took place. It's not like the easy money has anything to do with why we are winning the territory war. If Goons were claiming to have rolled hundreds of plexing alts into the militia to grind system captures, that would be a different case entirely, but they're not.

Also, the end of manipulation of the WZ control doesn't make Tier 5 a suddenly impossible achievement. It takes several million LP to invest every one of 56 systems to level V, this is easily earned by a handful of individual pilots investing an afternoon's worth of work. In other words, Goons are *not* the only ones capable of a coordinated pooling of LP upgrades by any means.


That is my point. you need to mass donate now to do it, before the mass donating would require more LP than people are willing to throw into it. We watched how many points you guys would hemorrhage per day. Every day since we stopped propping up Minmatar you have continued to lose points. Could you reverse this trend? Sure. Has evidence in the past shown you will, No. We think you will settle into T3 for quite some time until Amarr gets more bodies.

You gained those systems prepatch, if CCP had reset FW with the patch I think we would have never been able to do the things we did nearly as easily. Only the gross imbalance going into this patch allowed this to occur. Amarr finally will have a level playing field, or at least the opportunity to recruit and be level. No one likes bashing their head against a All 5 fortress day in an day out.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#274 - 2012-06-21 18:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
nm

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Xenuria
#275 - 2012-06-21 18:39:51 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Holy ****.. Vile rat!

You actually logged in long enough to post something.

Also kudos, it's not often you goons impress me but when you do it's something like this. You guys did get a head start on this and your involvement pretty much prevented me from taking any meaningful advantage of what my team and I had gleaned in a similar fashion.

OH well...

I recommend you guys spend some time on diablo 3 real money auction house. I am making ridiculous cash with that.
It's not to late to make some quick easy cash before gold becomes a purchasable commodity and then the price of everything plummets. Un-ironically, the majority of people working with me on this are from EVE.


Some of us already are. Not my cup of tea though. I believe adanthar has made 4 figures already.


Not bad, I mean the biggest payout was shortly after the RMAH went live. These people with way to much disposable income didn't seem to care much about price and just anamatronically bought out anything that had the highest dps. Which was typically something I put up that I had bought off the gold auction house.

I don't know how much I have made so far in total because anything in my paypal that I don't use right away goes to my campaign for CSM or gets turned into plex.

That Reminds me I need to make a kickstarter for that.

CSM 12 Candidate
abitrubbish
Goosefleet
Gooseflock Featheration
#276 - 2012-06-21 18:39:55 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,


At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. Don’t be That Guy.



By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.


OP admits that his alliance broke the EULA by exploiting.

Again.

And CCP lets them stay.

And its directly because you cant afford to ban them.

Absolutely disgusting.

Consider me unsubbed.



Can't believe it took so many pages.

Oh, bye.
blackpatch
Eighty Joule Brewery
Goonswarm Federation
#277 - 2012-06-21 18:40:42 UTC
:ccp:
Courthouse
Perkone
Caldari State
#278 - 2012-06-21 18:41:17 UTC
Werst Dendenahzees
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#279 - 2012-06-21 18:41:54 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:


Consider me unsubbed.


Why don't you actually unsub so that we don't have to pretend you are?
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#280 - 2012-06-21 18:42:01 UTC
THIS LEGITIMATE USE OF GAME MECHANICS VEXES ME GREATLY

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them