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Are you a UK national? Did you know about this...

Author
Reiisha
#41 - 2011-10-02 03:50:31 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:

Do you not need the government to defend your country from foreign invasion, provide schools, or invest in things like road building or power generation?


Since when are medical services and national defense the same thing? Because people want national defense, they also must want th government to wipe their nose as well?

As for schools, I see room for both government and private. The problems come when national government attempts to regulate and force payments. Governments hate competition. As for roads, they can be owned by local governments. Do you really need a national highway board to tell your town just what it needs to do?


Having a good government is not an all-or-nothing option. There needs to be a government to govern certain things such as national defense, road networks and general policing, and the general planning and caretaking of national property - Parks etc simply because no one will be privately paying for those unless a profit can be made.

And there's the rub: When profit can be made, it is made at the cost of nearly anything else. The product and service sold will be only just good enough, it will be done in the cheapest possible way at the cost of nearly everything in order to maximize the profit. This is where privatizing everything goes wrong, since the companies that will be running everything are not interested in the quality of their service or product, it is solely interested in generating as much profit as possible.

People should not be told how to live their lives, i agree, but there needs to be a government that keeps things in check. Sadly, most governments today side with the companies making a profit rather than the people that elected them to govern and gave them the power to do so.

This is what this is all about.

If you are truly independent, you will grow your own food, you will make your own car and roads, you will not pay taxes, you will build your own house and you will never ever buy a commercial product - In all those cases you're stating that you are dependant on someone else in some form or another.

Most people who say that "it's everyone for themselves" should actually try living in a true anarchy. Egypt is a good approximation of that right now.

Again, this is not a black and white issue. The amount in which there needs to be governance is up for discussion, and some things will bite you in the ass if you do them, either adding or removing - As in this case, medical support. Stating a general one size fits all 'solution' to the problem will create far more problems than it solves.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

VKhaun Vex
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2011-10-02 05:19:35 UTC  |  Edited by: VKhaun Vex
Reiisha wrote:
People should not be told how to live their lives, i agree, but there needs to be a government that keeps things in check. Sadly, most governments today side with the companies making a profit rather than the people that elected them to govern and gave them the power to do so.



Elections are actually very curious things when it comes to corporate control and corruption.

You may remember a lot of noise about bank bail outs, and people blaming conservatives or liberals for what happened. In reality banks just did what every industry has been doing for decades. When liberals were in power they took the benefits of a government that assumes regulation, and when conservatives are in power they take the benefits of a government that does not regulate. They can do all kinds of bad things that would make them fail, and then turn around and let the people prop them up anyway. They can take tax breaks for dealing with new regulations, and then not follow those regulations because they are given years to comply and by then the other side is back in power.

I'm simplifying of course. Please ignore the troll or two that will inevitably nitpick that paragraph. Point being the very people who claim they want to voice their opinions through election, give the opening for corporate control over their lives because the popular opinion changes over time, as people perceive an issue to change when really it's just cycling through the same phases over and over.

Few people really understand that, and it makes me lose faith in politics very quickly when I think about it.

Charges Twilight fans with Ka-bar -Surfin's PlunderBunny LIIIIIIIIIIINNEEEEE PIIIEEEECCCCEEE!!!!!!! -Taedrin Using relativity to irrational numbers is smart -rodyas I no longer believe we landed on the moon. -Atticus Fynch

Holy One
Privat Party
#43 - 2011-10-05 11:44:18 UTC
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/04/nhs-charging-operations-york

Soon they'll control all the primary care budgets when PCTs are abolished ..

Good times .. for greedy GP's.

:)

Adunh Slavy
#44 - 2011-10-05 12:39:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Too many vested interests to stop Americans from having an NHS and even if the political will was there, you would have to confront the right wing who think the NHS is the devilStraight



NHS is not the devil, government is. The inevitable outcome of over regulation is nationalization. The cure is lassie fare liberalism in the classic sense, that is the principle upon with the United States was founded. It is the betrayal of that principle the so called right-wing doesn't like. Sadly most of the right wing neo-cons, which are really globalist left leaning Fascists with guns, have no problem with war and devalued currency being the primary exports.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Alec Freeman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2011-10-05 17:31:18 UTC
Another reason for Scottish independance. Go go London based government -.-
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#46 - 2011-10-05 17:41:28 UTC
Alec Freeman wrote:
Another reason for Scottish independance. Go go London based government -.-



Careful what you wish for. If that happens my girlfriend will show up and drink Scotland dry. P


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#47 - 2011-10-05 18:42:06 UTC
Alec Freeman wrote:
Another reason for Scottish independance. Go go London based government -.-




i truly hope you get your wish ! most of us in england are getting pretty sick and tired of scotland and the way they constantly keep moaning on about how you all get an "apparent raw deal " from the union . I for one would welcome total independence from scotland ...

P.S
we will be closing our cheque book on you ... so be careful what you wish for
Woody Hill
New Eden Robotics
#48 - 2011-10-05 20:09:23 UTC
jason hill wrote:
Alec Freeman wrote:
Another reason for Scottish independance. Go go London based government -.-




i truly hope you get your wish ! most of us in england are getting pretty sick and tired of scotland and the way they constantly keep moaning on about how you all get an "apparent raw deal " from the union . I for one would welcome total independence from scotland ...

P.S
we will be closing our cheque book on you ... so be careful what you wish for


U dipstick, why do you think we have all the free education and prescriptions and other such perks and you don't.

It's because the English government is well aware of the fact that Scotland is one of the few areas of the UK that actually makes any money, and they will do ANYTHING to keep the Scots happy.

Closing our cheque book indeed, in such blissfull ignorance you live.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#49 - 2011-10-06 10:20:25 UTC
Living in Wales I can look on this English/Scottish debate with some objectivity.

The first thing is the East Lothian question; having either an English parliament or Scottish independence would solve this. But, to be honest, the figures don't add up for the Nationalists. Or rather, they are not doing their sums right.

The Scottish Nationalists, like the ones here in Wales, are riding high on the wave of Celtic Pride. We saw this years ago in Ireland when Dublin went nuts and thought that it was the new Shanghai. The Nationalists are milking this for all that they are worth.

Here in Wales, for example, more and more people are learning Welsh. It's now not unheard of to hear someone speak it along the M4 corridor. But at least "the Party of Wales" are not getting carried away with calls for independence because we know that it won't work.

Scotland is being kidded into thinking that the oil and gas will be theirs. This was sorted out years ago and I can tell you that the funds won't go to Edinburgh but will end up in Whitehall. Perhaps Scotland (or almost undoubtably) won't make such a mess of the money but that's neither here nor there.

If Independence would be had then a lot of the naval and military contracts and bases would head South of the border. There is only so much revenue that Scotand can earn on its own. Yes, it has sales of spirts but that's about it. Farming, espcially, highland farming is goign to take an even bigger knock in the future. Fishing is gettng worse as a British resource and that doen't leave Scotland with much.

Like Wales you have free education and prescriptions. Like in Wales that won't last.

Scottish Indpendence won't go ahead because the numbers don't add up. Ireland had its boom years only because it was promised a Free Port in Dublin for so many years. When I was over there watching the buildings go up in the financial district I asked a number of people the same question, as Microsoft, Dell, Gateway, et al, were moving in; "what's going to happen in ten years when the Free Port status stops?"

No-one was able nor willing to answer me. We saw the result with the country going to the EU cap in hand. Scotland, like Wales, won't even be allowed a ten year haymaking period. This is why independence won't happen. None of the countries who want it wil be afford it. And, remember, it's not just the Scots and the Welsh who want independence; don't forget that the English would love it too.

Hwyl.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#50 - 2011-10-06 18:25:09 UTC
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:
Living in Wales I can look on this English/Scottish debate with some objectivity.

The first thing is the East Lothian question; having either an English parliament or Scottish independence would solve this. But, to be honest, the figures don't add up for the Nationalists. Or rather, they are not doing their sums right.

The Scottish Nationalists, like the ones here in Wales, are riding high on the wave of Celtic Pride. We saw this years ago in Ireland when Dublin went nuts and thought that it was the new Shanghai. The Nationalists are milking this for all that they are worth.

Here in Wales, for example, more and more people are learning Welsh. It's now not unheard of to hear someone speak it along the M4 corridor. But at least "the Party of Wales" are not getting carried away with calls for independence because we know that it won't work.

Scotland is being kidded into thinking that the oil and gas will be theirs. This was sorted out years ago and I can tell you that the funds won't go to Edinburgh but will end up in Whitehall. Perhaps Scotland (or almost undoubtably) won't make such a mess of the money but that's neither here nor there.

If Independence would be had then a lot of the naval and military contracts and bases would head South of the border. There is only so much revenue that Scotand can earn on its own. Yes, it has sales of spirts but that's about it. Farming, espcially, highland farming is goign to take an even bigger knock in the future. Fishing is gettng worse as a British resource and that doen't leave Scotland with much.

Like Wales you have free education and prescriptions. Like in Wales that won't last.

Scottish Indpendence won't go ahead because the numbers don't add up. Ireland had its boom years only because it was promised a Free Port in Dublin for so many years. When I was over there watching the buildings go up in the financial district I asked a number of people the same question, as Microsoft, Dell, Gateway, et al, were moving in; "what's going to happen in ten years when the Free Port status stops?"

No-one was able nor willing to answer me. We saw the result with the country going to the EU cap in hand. Scotland, like Wales, won't even be allowed a ten year haymaking period. This is why independence won't happen. None of the countries who want it wil be afford it. And, remember, it's not just the Scots and the Welsh who want independence; don't forget that the English would love it too.

Hwyl.




obviously someone who knows what he`s talking about unlike the other poster Roll
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2011-10-06 20:50:01 UTC
Woody Hill wrote:
jason hill wrote:
Alec Freeman wrote:
Another reason for Scottish independance. Go go London based government -.-




i truly hope you get your wish ! most of us in england are getting pretty sick and tired of scotland and the way they constantly keep moaning on about how you all get an "apparent raw deal " from the union . I for one would welcome total independence from scotland ...

P.S
we will be closing our cheque book on you ... so be careful what you wish for


U dipstick, why do you think we have all the free education and prescriptions and other such perks and you don't.

It's because the English government is well aware of the fact that Scotland is one of the few areas of the UK that actually makes any money, and they will do ANYTHING to keep the Scots happy.

Closing our cheque book indeed, in such blissfull ignorance you live.


The city of london makes more money than most of scotlandRoll

Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#52 - 2011-10-07 11:38:49 UTC
Woody Hill wrote:


It's because the English government is well aware of the fact that Scotland is one of the few areas of the UK that actually makes any money, and they will do ANYTHING to keep the Scots happy.




I would really like to know where the source of this money is.

Oil and Gas? Straight to London - most of the companies involved are based in and around The Strand and it's been organised decades ago, that when the gas fields were discovered, that London would get the income and not Scotland. So, we can rule that out.

Tourism. Not a massive income stream. Yes, Edinburgh gets its share of visitors. There will be few going to the lowlands, even fewer to the highlands and islands. Not even the statue of Mel Gibson outside Stirling Castle is going to bring in the required millions of Americans.

Heavy Industry. The shipbuilding on the Clyde has gone. I can't think of much else.

Silicon Glen. Well, that didn't last long, did it?

Whisky exports. Yes, Scotch is a protected name but the trouble is that the Burberry capped yoof of today is going to develop a taste of other spirits. The biggest export market is Japan and I hope that holds up.

Fishing. Not a fat lot left of this. Our Iclandic and Norwegian friends outside of the EU have their waters. The Spanish and everyone else has the British waters' quota.

Farming. Apart from the low land belt there's not much arable farming other than around the Borders. Highland farming is going broke and the EU subsidies look like being reduced.


It makes me wonder when Scotland have self-appointed embassors to the world for the country such as Sean Connery who tells everyone who could be bothered to listen to him that he's proud to be Scottish and that Scotand shoudl be independent and then buggers off back to the tropics where he ives after he's received his appearance money.

The sad state of affairs is that if England bebuilt Offa's Dyke and moved Hadrian's Wall one county further North then Wales woudl last out longer, not much longer mind you, than Scotland. the harsh truth is that the Celtic countries really do need the Saxon 'Saes' of England. More than they need us.

Sadly, what we have read in yoru post is the usual Nationalistic nonsense trotted out, believed and re-hashed by the Scots. I am amazed at the number of times when an 'English Atrocity' is cited as blame for some part of the downfall of Scotland when more time times than not it's down to warring highland clans or the struggle betwen the highlands and lowlands. Unfortunately, too much of received Scottish history has been lifted from the pages of RL Stephenson's "Kidnapped" and "Catriona" and then taken for gospel. And then the myth continues about how great and self-supporting Scotland is.

The likes of Connery go on all misty-eyed about the land which gave us the bagpipe, golf and and the kilt. But neglect to mention that they came from Pakistan, the Netherlands and England respectively.

And another of these misty-eyed myths is that Scotland is a self-upporting economic powerhouse. Which it isn't.

But, I would wish that it were.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

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