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Being able to scan mission site wrecks
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Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#1 - 2012-06-21 06:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Blastcaps Madullier
one thing I've seen a few times on the general discussion section is people wanting to be able to scan wrecks down from mission sites, and the idea I've had is a option on the right click context menu for people running missions, which is in the last pocket they can right click any wreck and select "abandon site" which then could either put up a cosmic signature beacon or a cosmic anom beacon, first option would still require people to scan down the sites/wrecks where as the second option would allow ANYONE to just use the inbuilt ship scanners and being able to warp to them, or thirdly a anom like sig that isn't a cosmic anom beacon so it doesn't get confused with normal cosmic anoms.

potentially you could end up with multiple people warping into said sites and possibly fighting over them, or even setting up ambushes for people warping to them...
and also means people have the option to salvage sites that mission runners do not want to stop to salvage etc.
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#2 - 2012-06-21 06:04:46 UTC
Do you realize how many signatures that would add to a mission hub? My god...I would never be able to scan out a WT again due to my client crashing as it tried to load them all.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#3 - 2012-06-21 06:07:24 UTC
How are you going to ambush someone in high sec? You don't get aggro from abandoned wrecks, and even if you did, the aggro wouldn't be against the other salvagers.

Not that I'm entirely against scanning down wrecks, but none of that abandons site nonsense. If you want to let people scan wrecks add it as an option when using combat probes, and just give them a tiny signature.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#4 - 2012-06-21 06:16:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Blastcaps Madullier
Simi Kusoni wrote:
How are you going to ambush someone in high sec? You don't get aggro from abandoned wrecks, and even if you did, the aggro wouldn't be against the other salvagers.


let see.... bunch of catalysts fitted with long point/sebo maybe and when say ambush well you are pritty much talking about ganking when it comes to hs

Simi Kusoni wrote:

Not that I'm entirely against scanning down wrecks, but none of that abandons site nonsense. If you want to let people scan wrecks add it as an option when using combat probes, and just give them a tiny signature.


which you can get from scanning down mission runners while their still doing said site, the idea of the abandon site option means especialy when combined with using the ships onboard scanner instead of HAVING to use probes to locate them it then appears for ANYONE who wants to go for the wrecks, and as stated gives people the chance to also setup ambushes/ganks if they wish...

Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Do you realize how many signatures that would add to a mission hub? My god...I would never be able to scan out a WT again due to my client crashing as it tried to load them all.


hence the third suggestion about a diff class of sig for them, which as you know you can apply filters to your scans which means you can just eliminate them from the results, problem solved.

and just to clarify, abandoning site would also abandon all wrecks and cans in a site for example.

the other flip side of this server side it the reduction in the objects in a system reducing potential lag as well
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#5 - 2012-06-21 06:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
let see.... bunch of catalysts fitted with long point/sebo maybe and when say ambush well you are pritty much talking about ganking when it comes to hs

People aren't going to suicide gank a noctis/hurricane over a single site's salvage.

Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Not that I'm entirely against scanning down wrecks, but none of that abandons site nonsense. If you want to let people scan wrecks add it as an option when using combat probes, and just give them a tiny signature.
which you can get from scanning down mission runners while their still doing said site, the idea of the abandon site option means especialy when combined with using the ships onboard scanner instead of HAVING to use probes to locate them it then appears for ANYONE who wants to go for the wrecks, and as stated gives people the chance to also setup ambushes/ganks if they wish...

If you want to ninja salvage learn to scan.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#6 - 2012-06-21 07:02:38 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
let see.... bunch of catalysts fitted with long point/sebo maybe and when say ambush well you are pritty much talking about ganking when it comes to hs

People aren't going to suicide gank a noctis/hurricane over a single site's salvage.


yep just like some people dont use tier 3 BCs to gank hulks which is isk inefficent and costs them money, actualy YES THEY DO, so would people gank a noctis just for the KM value in say a destroyer or 2? YES



Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Not that I'm entirely against scanning down wrecks, but none of that abandons site nonsense. If you want to let people scan wrecks add it as an option when using combat probes, and just give them a tiny signature.
which you can get from scanning down mission runners while their still doing said site, the idea of the abandon site option means especialy when combined with using the ships onboard scanner instead of HAVING to use probes to locate them it then appears for ANYONE who wants to go for the wrecks, and as stated gives people the chance to also setup ambushes/ganks if they wish...


Simi Kusoni wrote:
If you want to ninja salvage learn to scan.


who said anything about wanting to ninja salvaging? as i pointed out if people want to scan down wrecks atm they can do so while the mission runner is in the site, the reason I'm suggesting this idea in the first place is:
1: it allows people to abandon an entire site if they dont want to loot/salvage it and allow others to do so, as apposed to ninja salvaging which is usualy done not just for isk but also to bait said mission runner into agressing
2: it removes a whole bunch of objects which sit anything upto 2h in a system till they despawn, which from a server side view also reduces the number of objects the server needs to draw/handle in a given system and reduces the load on that system/node and helps reduce lag especialy in busy mission hubs.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#7 - 2012-06-21 07:38:58 UTC
I agree, make them scannable, and add filters so noone is overwhelmed by an extra 1k signatures.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#8 - 2012-06-21 08:10:43 UTC
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
yep just like some people dont use tier 3 BCs to gank hulks which is isk inefficent and costs them money, actualy YES THEY DO, so would people gank a noctis just for the KM value in say a destroyer or 2? YES

A Noctis is worth ~80m ISK, a hulk is 250m+ and a 100m ISK reward is given for every ten you kill. Go figure.

And have you ever noticed how the Noctis is already a commonly used ship that doesn't get suicide ganked?

Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
who said anything about wanting to ninja salvaging? as i pointed out if people want to scan down wrecks atm they can do so while the mission runner is in the site, the reason I'm suggesting this idea in the first place is:
1: it allows people to abandon an entire site if they dont want to loot/salvage it and allow others to do so, as apposed to ninja salvaging which is usualy done not just for isk but also to bait said mission runner into agressing
2: it removes a whole bunch of objects which sit anything upto 2h in a system till they despawn, which from a server side view also reduces the number of objects the server needs to draw/handle in a given system and reduces the load on that system/node and helps reduce lag especialy in busy mission hubs.

1) This is pretty useless, as it is already possible via ninja salvaging. Hence my comment. It doesn't really add anything to the game except for a messy mechanic that won't get used. As you pointed out yourself, no one ninja salvages for profit. It simply isn't worth it.

2) Storing a bunch of data about items on a grid that isn't even loaded is easy. What lags out mission/trade hubs is drones, missiles, turrets, asset list retrieval, market checks and transactions etc.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#9 - 2012-06-21 12:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Blastcaps Madullier
Simi Kusoni wrote:

A Noctis is worth ~80m ISK, a hulk is 250m+ and a 100m ISK reward is given for every ten you kill. Go figure.
And have you ever noticed how the Noctis is already a commonly used ship that doesn't get suicide ganked?


http://y0ink.us/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=26667
http://y0ink.us/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=21873

If anyone's going to gank a noctis in HS it's liable to be SN lol
and lets face it, a catalyst isn't exactly expensive to fit even with current ingame market prices :)
the example of the tier 3 BC and the hulk is just that, an example (that i've actually witnessed BEFORE goons "sponsored emergent game play and started paying out on 10 exhumer kills) point being is some people JUST want kill mails and don't care if it costs them isk to get it.

Quote:
And have you ever noticed how the Noctis is already a commonly used ship that does get suicide ganked?



Simi Kusoni wrote:

1) This is pretty useless, as it is already possible via ninja salvaging. Hence my comment. It doesn't really add anything to the game except for a messy mechanic that won't get used./quote]

ONLY if said mission runner is still in the site, and secondly just because you think it wont get used doesn't mean others wont take advantage of it, either to loot/salvage the site or be sat in the site waiting already, quite sure plenty of other people can work out how to take advantage of this idea :)
and who says this is a messy idea? as said 3rd option is to add a 3rd type of sig/anom beacon that people can find specialy if all thats needed is the ships onboard scanner to find them and warp to them same as anoms? plus that way people can set their filters to just remove the abandoned site sigs or are you suggesting by messy CCP if they impliment the idea are liable to do a messy job of it?

[quote=Simi Kusoni]2) Storing a bunch of data about items on a grid that isn't even loaded is easy. What lags out mission/trade hubs is drones, missiles, turrets, asset list retrieval, market checks and transactions etc.

etc also includes, wrecks, npcs, cans, GSCs etc etc etc and this idea gives team gridlock ideas on ways of reducing latency further.

anyway troll, I'm done.
IYO it's a bad idea, imo it's a good one.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#10 - 2012-06-21 12:40:04 UTC
Those aren't suicide ganks :/

You don't gank in a rapier or assault frigate.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#11 - 2012-06-21 13:52:41 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Those aren't suicide ganks :/

You don't gank in a rapier or assault frigate.


enjoy your day :)
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-06-21 14:00:53 UTC
Being able somehow to detect "Abandoned" sites?

Maybe the implementation of some beacon when you "abandon" would be the easier way to implement and give a little boost to small professions/newbbies to get some isk

Abandoned wrecks or not no one loots/salvage cause generous lag and node data, so why not?

brb
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#13 - 2012-06-21 14:05:24 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Those aren't suicide ganks :/

You don't gank in a rapier or assault frigate.

Not on purpose, anyway. Cool

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Serena Serene
Heretic University
#14 - 2012-06-21 14:05:25 UTC
I'm against having that available to the normal ship scanner.
At least let the people put in the effort of using scan probes when they want to profit of left-behind riches, abandoned or not.
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#15 - 2012-06-21 16:56:20 UTC
Serena Serene wrote:
I'm against having that available to the normal ship scanner.
At least let the people put in the effort of using scan probes when they want to profit of left-behind riches, abandoned or not.


There's pro's and cons to being scanable with probes only, being only said people with probe launchers etc would be able to find, meaning less people likely to turn up for it, pro on that would be more chance of someone getting a whole site to themselves.
scanable by ship scanner means more people at the sites ie more competition for the site salvage/looting and more chances for people to arrange ambushes etc
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#16 - 2012-06-21 18:33:27 UTC
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
Serena Serene wrote:
I'm against having that available to the normal ship scanner.
At least let the people put in the effort of using scan probes when they want to profit of left-behind riches, abandoned or not.


There's pro's and cons to being scanable with probes only, being only said people with probe launchers etc would be able to find, meaning less people likely to turn up for it, pro on that would be more chance of someone getting a whole site to themselves.
scanable by ship scanner means more people at the sites ie more competition for the site salvage/looting and more chances for people to arrange ambushes etc



would also be curious as to what some of the HS griefing/ganking crowd think on this idea
nomlet
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-06-21 20:00:47 UTC
How about a deployable scanable item that any ship can deploy & title - which last an hour or so.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#18 - 2012-06-21 20:13:10 UTC
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:

potentially you could end up with multiple people warping into said sites and possibly fighting over them, or even setting up ambushes for people warping to them...
and also means people have the option to salvage sites that mission runners do not want to stop to salvage etc.



Suppose your idea goes through even though you forgot to put it in F&I. When a person abandons the site this would mean that the loot on the inside of the wreck would become neutral like the wreck itself. This means that anybody can grab the item without flagging of any sort. How then, would one set an ambush or fight over said wreck?

Also, to answer your last question, Ninja's won't give 2 cents about this idea. For a ninja the loot is not the prize, it's the catalyst. What they really want is that Billion Isk Battleship to go flashy red. 10-20 mil in loot, 100mil ransom or officer mods. Which way do you think the scales will tip.
As for Runners, they can do what they do now and just ask in local if anyone wants to salvage. Mean while starting binmen can also ask in local if anyone has a site they need cleaned.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#19 - 2012-06-21 20:22:24 UTC
Seleia O'Sinnor wrote:
I agree, make them scannable, and add filters so noone is overwhelmed by an extra 1k signatures.



Maybe a special type of probe, just for wreck-scanning. Call it...I dunno..."Graveyard probe," or something. It can only scan out wrecks, nothing else.

Great way for newbies to make money, and gives ninja salvagers/wreck-baiters another tool in their box. (It would be nice, since ninja-salvaging's been nerfed into the ground repeatedly because of ::whinebears are whining:: over the years).

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.