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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#701 - 2012-06-21 04:18:02 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Yeah that 10M/month per member is pretty brutal, virtually slavery one might say.

Quote:
Looks like mining in null is just fine, according to that FAILA flyer.

10M isk per month per member for access to billions worth of infrastructure and the forum explodes in people crying that it's not worth the fee

Provin my points for me, Marlona.


You just proved mine with that flyer.
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#702 - 2012-06-21 04:18:08 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
i also enjoy that morons keep thinking "moon moving" would nerf goonswarm

i have news for you guys, guess who the only alliance is that has enough bodies to throw at the problem



This kind of crap is a large part of the problem. Screw null. You brainiacs made the problem now enjoy the mess you've made.


This literally makes no sense. I'm sure you think it does, but I assure you it does not.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#703 - 2012-06-21 04:23:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Marconus Orion wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Yeah that 10M/month per member is pretty brutal, virtually slavery one might say.

Quote:
Looks like mining in null is just fine, according to that FAILA flyer.

10M isk per month per member for access to billions worth of infrastructure and the forum explodes in people crying that it's not worth the fee

Provin my points for me, Marlona.


You just proved mine with that flyer.

You don't really have points though, just bitter drivel about how paying 10M isk a month (that's like, what, one cycle of arkonor) = slavery & raping and also angsting about why people don't respect your opinions for some mysterious reason.
Ashera Yune
Doomheim
#704 - 2012-06-21 04:31:08 UTC
NAPFEST. You need to end it to make Nullsec Vibrant again.

"Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."

 Kahlil Gibran
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#705 - 2012-06-21 04:37:21 UTC
Ashera Yune wrote:
NAPFEST. You need to end it to make Nullsec Vibrant again.


Please describe for us the nature of this napfest and quantify how it has lowered the overall level of conflict compared to some general running average.

Thanks.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#706 - 2012-06-21 05:08:35 UTC
dontbanmebro wrote:
Ashera Yune wrote:
NAPFEST. You need to end it to make Nullsec Vibrant again.


Please describe for us the nature of this napfest and quantify how it has lowered the overall level of conflict compared to some general running average.

Thanks.


I think its called "peace"

and "Brohugs"

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#707 - 2012-06-21 05:25:19 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
You don't really have points though, just bitter drivel about how paying 10M isk a month (that's like, what, one cycle of arkonor) = slavery & raping and also angsting about why people don't respect your opinions for some mysterious reason.


I just don't see the appeal of paying someone to be a meat shield/fill a buffer zone. I mean in all seriousness, if there are those who are ok with it, then so be it and good luck with your mining rental space. I have made some points throughout this thread that was meet with trolling, insults and flat out personal attacks on me for doing so. You can claim they are uninformed and continue to dodge serious questions I present to you all you want.

The general vibe I get from you and others is that you want players to leave high sec and come to null, but only if they are renters or some other form of servant, peon or worker for you. I believe that if a small entity wants to carve out a piece of null, they should be able to do so in some capacity, even if it is just one system. You believe null is the pseudo end game. Where everything else is measured by. I do not believe in an end game for EVE. You believe that unless someone is currently, at this very moment, basing from null sec, they are absolutely the only ones allowed to even have an opinion on it. I do not. Null, just like all other areas of this game are part of each other and even if someone does not live in null space, they are effected by it and their opinion should be heard.

You guys speak about how you hate ~elitist~ attitudes, yet flood the forums with constant insults, threats, trolling and other nonsense. Then, have the audacity to ask on the very same forums, why people prefer all other parts of space instead of null. When they reply you scream, "No! This is why..." and threaten to remove any aspect of the game they enjoy (and could lead to the desire to carve a name for themselves in null) as some form of punishment because, they see the game differently than you do.

Anyways, carry on with the usual trolling, insults and personal attacks against all those who do not see the game identical to you. Seems you have a free pass to do so right now.
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#708 - 2012-06-21 05:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Only way for nullsec to become vibrant is for multiple large groups of players to up and decide they'd rather take over a large chunk with all the blood, sweat, and tears that accompany such an effort rather than take the easy route and become somebody's *****. Problem is, there's way more incentive to bend over.

They do this because it's easy, because they're new, because they don't understand the game, because they don't think they can do it, because it's hard to get people willing to lose huge amounts of isk with from a playerbase mostly interested in grinding up to their next PLEX. Maybe it's hard to find fighters willing to dive into the meat grinder and leave with a ****** k/d ratio on goddamned battleclinic while having to teach basic pvp to "newbs" and "baddies" and maybe even because they don't have time for it.

So they join an already existing power bloc with an ingrained culture and largely indifferent overlords and pay their bills like good little pets. They may not like this system, but for the above mentioned reasons they feel there's no way to just take over and do things their own way. They settle into farming patterns, pay their bills, assimilate into the power block of choice and nullsec remains unchanged and stagnant.

By the end of it, life at someone else's feet doesn't seem like such a bad thing.
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#709 - 2012-06-21 05:42:49 UTC
I think these are good points, as you need both a pull and a push:

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
1) Increase reward in nullsec
Pro: Don't have to change highsec.
Con: The amount of increased isk needed to allure large amounts of characters from the low-risk world of highsec would have a significant effect on the game economy. Inflation is a problem people complain about now, after all.

2) Decrease risk in nullsec.
Pro: More players will feel more confident taking the risk of moving into 0.0
Con: People complain about how hard it is to gank effective in null now.

3) Decrease reward in highsec
Pro: seriously curbs isk injection, compels players to strike out in 0.0 if only to continue to pay their plex bill
Con: highsec people will chew their own tongues in rage, doesn't address more serious problems in either region

4) Increase risk in highsec
Pro: makes manufacturing economy more robust, allows highsec players to compete over use of resources
Con: carebears don't like it, feel it will infringe on their 'right' not to PVP.

The best way to minimize all of the cons would be to implement a little from everything. That way the change would rest on the community evenly.

I for my part would like to have more of an incentive to go to null. All I see at the moment is a minefield with a risk-reward ratio that is not worth my game time.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#710 - 2012-06-21 05:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Marconus Orion wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Quote:
Ratting of any sort is prohibited outside of belts and on gates. A 500 million isk penalty will be applied if this is breached.


That's rather lame.


Looks like a farming ground for FAILA blues, all the while FAILA itself rapes these renters for every nickle and dime with rent, super restricted zones and even taking them to the cleaners when they refine. And they come to the forums asking why no one wants to go to null and live under their yoke.

Any ideas that are presented that would give anyone a chance in null space without being a slave to them is immediately derailed and criticized with over used meme after over used meme.

I guess all that business about how mining in null was a waste of time because it was terrible was in fact, a load of bullshit. Looks like mining in null is just fine, according to that FAILA flyer. Blink


2 alts of mine have been in a IA renter corp. 3 of the most bolded clauses:

- You will not go to this list of systems: [list of neg sec systems with good minerals] else we will pod you on sight.
- You shall not be found inside of: [list of systems with stations and service] else we will pod you on sight.
- You shall not put a POS in any moon except atmospheric gas ones in this system else we will kill it and expel you.

Plus other crapola like that.
Unsurprisingly our renter corp ended up with people quitting due to boredom and sub-par income.


Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

It's pretty much the most lax and cheapest rental agreement I've ever seen.


Exactly, it's one of the most lax. The others are worse. No surprise nobody cares to go to that big 0.0 box of endless sand.

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#711 - 2012-06-21 06:12:54 UTC
Ashera Yune wrote:
NAPFEST. You need to end it to make Nullsec Vibrant again.


And all the Amarr NPC corps should wardec the Minmatar NPC corps amirite?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#712 - 2012-06-21 06:55:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ashera Yune wrote:
NAPFEST. You need to end it to make Nullsec Vibrant again.


And all the Amarr NPC corps should wardec the Minmatar NPC corps amirite?


Yes!
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#713 - 2012-06-21 07:03:53 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ashera Yune wrote:
NAPFEST. You need to end it to make Nullsec Vibrant again.


And all the Amarr NPC corps should wardec the Minmatar NPC corps amirite?


Ladies and Gentlemen, Malcanis has entered the building.

Take it away Master of the Good Post.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#714 - 2012-06-21 07:16:19 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
You guys speak about how you hate ~elitist~ attitudes, yet flood the forums with constant insults, threats, trolling and other nonsense. Then, have the audacity to ask on the very same forums, why people prefer all other parts of space instead of null. When they reply you scream, "No! This is why..." and threaten to remove any aspect of the game they enjoy (and could lead to the desire to carve a name for themselves in null) as some form of punishment because, they see the game differently than you do.

Nice strawman, marlona.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#715 - 2012-06-21 07:23:18 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
You guys speak about how you hate ~elitist~ attitudes, yet flood the forums with constant insults, threats, trolling and other nonsense. Then, have the audacity to ask on the very same forums, why people prefer all other parts of space instead of null. When they reply you scream, "No! This is why..." and threaten to remove any aspect of the game they enjoy (and could lead to the desire to carve a name for themselves in null) as some form of punishment because, they see the game differently than you do.

Nice strawman, marlona.



Man don't you sleep. just got up and your still here Big smile

Tal

Josef Djugashvilis
#716 - 2012-06-21 07:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Weasel wrote:

"i do not care what a guy who has been in an npc corp for nine years is "impressed with" and neither does anyone else of note"

I should imagine that folk will stop posting with alts around the same time 0.0 folk stop using neutral alts to move goods in and out out hi-sec.

This is not a signature.
Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
#717 - 2012-06-21 07:26:57 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:

Except now more people go to lo sec.

Which solves the problem of lo sec being depopulated.

Dunno, between the extra caution, needing to secure an area to run, losses, etc. and having this all exasperated by a higher population, unless you are already in the entrenched groups you mentioned, it sounds better to just smash 3's in highsec.


I'm fine with the hi sec slaves grinding away their lives for pennies in L3s.

I'll be in lo sec.


You guy's were saying the same thing for level 5's now you want level 4's....I guess level 2's or all missions should be move there as well.Roll

The day you guy's start demanding tutorials be moved to low or null is the day I create an invention that would allow me to stab someone in the face through the Internet.Lol
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#718 - 2012-06-21 07:36:51 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
You guys speak about how you hate ~elitist~ attitudes, yet flood the forums with constant insults, threats, trolling and other nonsense. Then, have the audacity to ask on the very same forums, why people prefer all other parts of space instead of null. When they reply you scream, "No! This is why..." and threaten to remove any aspect of the game they enjoy (and could lead to the desire to carve a name for themselves in null) as some form of punishment because, they see the game differently than you do.

Nice strawman, marlona.


Strawman or not, that is the way the rest of the populace perceives nullsec: full of cliques looking for ways to force the rest of the playerbase to be their slaves. It is really up to nullsec denizens (or at least your recruiters) to convince the population that it just isn't true.

Nicolo V posting his ever-so-painful "miner pass" is just one example of how ludicrous nullsec gameplay has become.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
#719 - 2012-06-21 07:37:42 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
I am going to suggest what I have been told since day one about EVE. EVE is only as good as you make it.
Therefore I suggest the problem is not null sec vs high sec. The problem is the players in null sec itself.
If they are not engaged in the game then they are the problem. We have met the enemy and they are us!

This idea that null is dying is not new. Many players make the comment that null is boring even null players themselves.
And to that I say again look in the mirror. High sec is not nulls problem. Null sec is nulls problem. Doctor heal thy self.

I do not think it is CCP's problem either. The game has evolved into what the players have made it. IE. Null is the way it is because of the players in null. Not because of high sec.


A really good post lost on deaf ears.... Such a shame really... (but I would like to reserve the right to quote you m8...)
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#720 - 2012-06-21 07:42:26 UTC
Flex Carter wrote:

A really good post lost on deaf ears.... Such a shame really... (but I would like to reserve the right to quote you m8...)


Why would you want to quote something born of ignorance. It reeks of someone who's mind is stuck in themepark MMOs that have separate zones of gameplay that don't really impact one another. EVE is a Sandbox and everything is connected.