EVE General Discussion

This is why I'm more for increasing risk rather then nerf reward by removing NPC corps and fixing wardec evasion as well as boosting industry.
Because the issue at hand isn't merely making 0.0 more alluring to casual miners/small-indy players (although that is important too), but also make letting those carebears in more alluring to nullsec alliance leaders.

Briefly put, the amount of incentives that a nullsec alliance leader would need to replace just getting a handful of guys with freighter alts in NPC corps to just load up in Jita with all the supplies (sold at cutthroat, rock bottom wholesale prices) they could possibly need and autopilot down to the deployment system 100% risk free and replace that with thousands of PVP-averse bears who need lots of protection and are free to charge a far higher price, would be gamebreaking. Incentivising in-house industry as a desireable alternate to trade hub supply convoys necessarily means making supply convoys less feasible to do, and that involves investigating highsec logistics, because highsec and nullsec logistics are for the most part the same thing.

People moan about the nullsec logistics train that docks in a trade hub manhours of technetium and leaves with mandecades of low-end minerals to build things with, and how jump bridges help with that, but very few people question about why noone seems able to disrupt these highsec convoys despite these unprotected freighters taking nearly zero precautions.

I don't know that removing local in and of itself is a solution to the root of the issue. I do like the ideas that were presented in this thread as it adds a level of immersion to the intelligence aspect of null sec as well as to high and low.

I would encourage you to at least read the OP in the thread and leave your comments Mors makes some good points and addresses them pretty well. It may not suit the Nuke Local crowd or the Leave Local Alone crowd but at least consider the proposition.

They can get CCP to "deal with it" for them.

Love to buff CONCORD.

Loll at the nerds saying 0.0 is the game.

As someone who bought this game 2 days after it was released, and has prettymuch done it all, all of EVE is the game, you egomaniacs.

I do like the idea of reducing the income of mission running and incursions in high sec. I don't think removing level 4 missions and incursions from high sec will do anything to motivate residents there to look to low sec or null to live.

I like incursions in high sec because it is the only activity that encourages team work and trust. Key ingredients to venturing into more dangerous parts of the game. I also wouldn't mind seeing level 5 missions back into high sec due to the difficulty requiring team work. Again, none of these should come remotely close to the amount of income one can achieve in low, null and unknown space.

In addition to these high sec changes, there are many low hanging fruit items that can be done in null to help improve the industry core there. Tons more industry slots and even have a look at the POS modules that allow for industry. I could be wrong, oh god the horror, but in order to pull off any kind of manufacturing and other related industry stuff; players have to invest heavily into a large structure with little defenses to suvive long.

Why should we wait till the winter to change any of what I mentioned or other tweaks, when they can be done now?

This is interesting.

Lets see.

- High barriers are mostly just due to elitist alliances, Goons (Goonwaffe) and TEST (Dreddit) are perfect examples of alliances with low entry requirements, they will take day old noobs and start them out in null on day one. There are plenty of other null corps that have fairly low entry requirements (i.e. around 5mil SP). Suitibly motivated corps and alliances can make the move though they wont be doing it entirely on their own (TEST takes on new corps all the time), two highsec based alliances 99% and The Aurora Shadow recently moved to null and are beginning to claim sov in Delve (with some help from blues of course, you dont get anywhere in null without allies).

- I doubt you will ever get pure carebears to leave highsec, null offers a unique combination of PvE, PvP, Politics and Drama that occurs nowhere else in EVE. Those who want to play in the big sandbox move to sov null, and many small gang PvP corps move to npc null (those who dont want to deal with sec status or gate guns).

- The PvP is the content in Null, PvE is for making isk or building things.

- Welcome to the sandbox, powerblocs come and go but you pretty much always get powerblocs of some sort.

- Agreed, null industry needs help (beyond just building capitals/supers)

And very significant. Instead, we'll see people throw out tons of other half-baked ideas instead of examining this for truth.

It's like smallholding, but a renter version.

Wow.

I love how you manage to present Goons and Test as non-elitist, without a trace of irony.



Neither of those were carebearish corporations, and now they are pets. Let's see how long they last now that they are embedded in Test culture ;)



Why would you want pure carebears in your alliance at all? You can recruit non-carebear industrialists, but you don't. Why?

The main reason I have seen for not recruiting industrialists is the fear of someone else stomping on your market. That is to say: the null bears don't want to engage in market PvP. I have lived in alliances where there were strict orders about "thou shalt sell at less than Lowest Jita Sell +10%, because we are friends, and that means not profiteering." That is the ultimate carebear attitude right there: I don't like competition, so I will fly with the big alliance so even when my ship is blown up I can feel like I have not lost, and perish the thought that the pilot who had the gumption to take a jump freighter to Jita and back should receive fair compensation for their effort, and perish further the thought that people would be motivated to provide more supplies due to the potential profits.

More market slots in stations, limited market slots in stations, let the players control not just the contents of the market but the market itself. You want Jita 4-4 to be able to host millions of orders? Pay up your CN LP to buy that expansion to Jita for a month. You want your alliance's outpost to have more market slots? Contribute to the expanded market capacity module.

The POS rework that is cooking will hopefully address the issue: want more facilities? Tack on more power plants and bolt on that facility. Your POS grows to be an outpost over time. Just wild fantasy of course, CCP aren't that awesome.

Limiting the capacity of logistics networks by bulking up the goods being transported means you are not directly nerfing JFs or carriers or whatever. Requiring more hauling to be done means supply lines will be busier, and thus present more targets for roaming gangs. Farms and fields, with covered wagons. This will also raise the demand for ice products, making mining more profitable everywhere.

Limited capacity of supply chains will also lead to larger regional markets: if you have to do ten times more jumps, the option to pick markets closer than Jita becomes ten times more attractive. Let the hisec bears spend their time hauling ice products from Brapelille to Torrinos. Your time is better spent hauling from Torrinos to [insert system here]. Heck, it might even be attractive to jump into Nalvula and pay other people to haul from Vuorrassi.

Ultimately, we will break Jita - not by burning it, but by watching it fade away.

If you want to see a more self-sufficient nullsec, and wish to have farms and fields to burn, mineral compression must die. Instant lossless refining in NPC stations must die. Industry should be entirely player-run with no crutches from NPCs. No more NPC research slots or copy slots: industry must be player controlled.