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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#641 - 2012-06-21 00:40:34 UTC
Malphilos wrote:

As you say, that's ground already covered. I'll ask again:

You're not able to do that?

I suspect the answer is obvious, which pretty much makes a hash of your other arguments.

the answer to this has been explained before, if you wish to make stupid arguments you will make them yourself rather than me making them for you

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#642 - 2012-06-21 00:41:49 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Malph either read the goddamn thread or STFU. Now I'm getting irritated because you're just putting us off track for no reason.


Sorry, I'm less than impressed by "lets make the alternative suck so we can have more low level targets" as an important discussion.

And that's been the point all along.


I refer you to the now 10s of pages where we discuss the importance of changing Null Sec Industry to promote a more active Industrial Core thus fueling the "Farms and Fields" mentality. The thought process behind nerfing L4s is to make NullSec pilots come back to Null to make their ISK, rather than the extremely easy process of setting up a L4 alt and just letting the cash roll in with no PvP environment being fostered.


While I like the idea of encouraging industry, I'm still rather unimpressed with the mindset of making things suck more to move people around.

I asked earlier why people were in null if it sucked so much, the response was that the things people wanted to do were there. Combine that with the loudest complaint about nerfing jump bridges, and it seems to me that the issue isn't isk/hr, it's simply hr.

You can encourage a few people to drop their L4 alts by reducing the reward, but I'll bet all you really do is reduce the amount of PvP overall. A ship loss represents a greater investment of time than money. CCP sells iskies. Time is the only limited commodity.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#643 - 2012-06-21 00:42:02 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Malph either read the goddamn thread or STFU. Now I'm getting irritated because you're just putting us off track for no reason.


Sorry, I'm less than impressed by "lets make the alternative suck so we can have more low level targets" as an important discussion.

And that's been the point all along.

i do not care what a guy who has been in an npc corp for nine years is "impressed with" and neither does anyone else of note

the reason we are forced to do this dance is you're not actually clever enough to even attempt to deconstruct the argument

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#644 - 2012-06-21 00:42:43 UTC
Malphilos wrote:

You can encourage a few people to drop their L4 alts by reducing the reward, but I'll bet all you really do is reduce the amount of PvP overall. A ship loss represents a greater investment of time than money. CCP sells iskies. Time is the only limited commodity.

none of this is remotely true, and evidences a complete lack of understanding of anything that has been discussed

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#645 - 2012-06-21 00:43:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Oisin Sandovar
Adelphie wrote:


Sounds like the existing bounty system to me,

I guess, except this wouldn't be against other players, but some random NPC. It could even be some Empire NPC.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the bounty system.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#646 - 2012-06-21 00:44:43 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
That's not your problem. 70-80% of null doesn't even have tech moons. The problem is the reason why you don't want to move to any of the non-tech space.

Now I've argued on the Jita Speakers Forum that sov levels should move from just million+ EHP structures and time to include level of activity within the system as a factor for military sov ie: the less used a system is, the easier it is to take, maybe the resists of the TCU drop even. Add planetary control (DUST mercs) and POCO holding as factors as well, and do away with sov bills in exchange for this increase in maintenance. Roaming gangs, cloakers and DUST merc contracts could significantly soften up a target system (system could no longer support cynojammers, jump bridges) before even having to shoot a single structure.


I like the forward thinking used to include Dust in this equation. Can you post a link to this thread that you are referencing? I wouldn't mind giving it a read.

Thanks Nic.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Adelphie
The Lone Wolves.
#647 - 2012-06-21 00:44:59 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Adelphie wrote:


Sounds like the existing bounty system to me,

I guess, except this wouldn't be against other players, but some random NPC. It could even be some Empire NPC.
Unless I'm understanding the bounty system.


Sorry, my misunderstanding. I thought you meant putting the bounty on an player.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#648 - 2012-06-21 00:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Adelphie wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
stuff


It's a shame that this isn't on page 1.


Thanks - maybe I'll be making another thread on the isue next weekend one more time, but I'm growing tired of calling out the obvious for years without ever hearing a counter-argument and CCP being obviously deaf in that regard.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#649 - 2012-06-21 00:46:09 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Malphilos wrote:

You can encourage a few people to drop their L4 alts by reducing the reward, but I'll bet all you really do is reduce the amount of PvP overall. A ship loss represents a greater investment of time than money. CCP sells iskies. Time is the only limited commodity.

none of this is remotely true, and evidences a complete lack of understanding of anything that has been discussed

Except it is, if what people here have been saying is true - that people use alts to do L4s to pay for their PvP.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#650 - 2012-06-21 00:47:26 UTC
Adelphie wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Adelphie wrote:


Sounds like the existing bounty system to me,

I guess, except this wouldn't be against other players, but some random NPC. It could even be some Empire NPC.
Unless I'm understanding the bounty system.


Sorry, my misunderstanding. I thought you meant putting the bounty on an player.

I was really thinking of a way that missions, like in high sec, could be done in 0.0. As a way to keep players in 0.0.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#651 - 2012-06-21 00:47:59 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Malphilos wrote:

You can encourage a few people to drop their L4 alts by reducing the reward, but I'll bet all you really do is reduce the amount of PvP overall. A ship loss represents a greater investment of time than money. CCP sells iskies. Time is the only limited commodity.

none of this is remotely true, and evidences a complete lack of understanding of anything that has been discussed


Really? Where do you get more time?

See also: every other nerf that's failed to push people into null.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#652 - 2012-06-21 00:49:00 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Adelphie wrote:
Large Collidable Object wrote:
stuff


It's a shame that this isn't on page 1.


Thanks - maybe I'll be making another thread on the isue next weekend one more time, but I'm growing tired of calling out the obvious for years without ever hearing a counter-argument and CCP being obviously deaf in that regard.


Maybe try it in F&I with a post in GD and CAOD referencing it?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#653 - 2012-06-21 00:49:07 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
I'm growing tired of calling out the obvious for years without ever hearing a counter-argument and CCP being obviously deaf in that regard.


They're not though.

Now, the odds of them not completely bungling the implementation of this theory is another matter.
Adelphie
The Lone Wolves.
#654 - 2012-06-21 00:49:10 UTC
Anyway guys, I'm calling it a night.

Thanks for the really good discussion generated so far, and I hope it continues.

I'll do a front page digest when I have the time/inclination.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#655 - 2012-06-21 00:49:21 UTC
Malphilos: Since you've got CSPA on: moneymaking time.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#656 - 2012-06-21 00:53:23 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Really? Where do you get more time?

See also: every other nerf that's failed to push people into null.


"we can't get more players into nullsec, clearly the solution is to make hisec PvE an endless fountain of isk"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#657 - 2012-06-21 00:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Kimmi Chan wrote:
I like the forward thinking used to include Dust in this equation. Can you post a link to this thread that you are referencing? I wouldn't mind giving it a read.

Thanks Nic.
It's really bad because instead of discussing ideas to improve space, idiots with no experience living in 0.0 infested the thread going on about how "local" was the barrier keeping people out, it made this thread look really productive in comparison.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#658 - 2012-06-21 01:00:36 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
It's really bad because instead of discussing ideas to improve space, idiots with no experience living in 0.0 infested the thread going on about how "local" was the barrier keeping people out, it made this thread look really productive in comparison.

Infested, you say.

If only there was a forums null security to allow for player-driven weeding operations.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#659 - 2012-06-21 01:00:45 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
it made this thread look really productive in comparison.

Now that is quite the feat.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#660 - 2012-06-21 01:05:21 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
it made this thread look really productive in comparison.

Now that is quite the feat.

Well, I guess we can just go back to the removing local discussion to reduce our productivity.

Anyone want to start us off?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?