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EoKI - On the Caldari

Author
Bastian Valoron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-06-20 14:49:43 UTC
Halete wrote:
Who better suited to help the tribes than the people of Caldari-Prime, who were taught diligence and efficiency by their bitter planet?

This is a strange remark. Out of all peoples in the cluster, are the tribes really in need of lessons in diligence and efficiency? Every culture in the cluster has suffered from scarcity at some point of the history but some of them have been able to overcome this condition and build a highly advanced technological society which believes in freedom, equality and human rights. It's disappointing to see that some of the Matari people are so willing to do anything to pad their wallets.

Halete wrote:
Several Caldari subsidiaries have already declared interest in trading with the Minmatar. It is an opportunity we cannot afford to slip.

I sure wonder who this might be? An organization which refuses to comment this affair, and is known to pull tricks like this, maybe? I wonder much did you get for selling your people?

Halete wrote:
Yes, the Federation have helped our people. We owe them a great deal. It is precisely for this reason why we cannot afford to lose more ground to the Federation and must seek new frontiers.

The reasoning used here could be used to justify a surrender of the Republic to the slavers, or cranial micro-controller salesmen, word by word. Perhaps this is exactly what has happened here. This is of course an internal matter of the Minmatar people but it's still disappointing to see how their spirit is gradually crumbling and how a person can be blinded by greed.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-06-20 14:55:46 UTC
It is considered greed now to notice and pursue opportunities to provide for family and community?

~Malcolm Khross

Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-06-20 15:50:23 UTC
Gottii wrote:
Dex Nederland wrote:
The Federation sees you as a market as well, but they just are not honest about it.

Try restricting Quafe, CreoDron, Transtellar, etc activities in the Republic and see what happens.



I would rather be seen as consumers, than commodities.


Why? You're treated the same way.

To know the face of God is to know madness.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-06-20 15:54:52 UTC
Ilsenae Alexandros wrote:
Why? You're treated the same way.


Not entirely. A consumer is treated as an individual who can purchase commodities.

A commodity is seen as an item of value which can be purchased by a consumer.

I believe the sentiment here is that he would rather his people be seen as fellow consumers in the market rather than the commodities being sold on that market.

~Malcolm Khross

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#45 - 2012-06-20 16:21:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Scherezad
Bastian Valoron wrote:
This is a strange remark. Out of all peoples in the cluster, are the tribes really in need of lessons in diligence and efficiency? Every culture in the cluster has suffered from scarcity at some point of the history but some of them have been able to overcome this condition and build a highly advanced technological society which believes in freedom, equality and human rights. It's disappointing to see that some of the Matari people are so willing to do anything to pad their wallets.


A baseless accusation against Pilot Halete's good name, aspersions against her character and warrantless suppositions on her motives. Shame on you, sir. If you consider this a ruse, speak clearly. You do your people a disservice.

Bastian Valoron wrote:
I sure wonder who this might be? An organization which refuses to comment this affair, and is known to pull tricks like this, maybe? I wonder much did you get for selling your people?


Drawing links where there are none, and not taking others on their word - accusing the good people of I-RED of malfeasance with no evidence but your feelings. Shame on you, sir. If you feel that this is a ploy, speak clearly. You do your people a disservice.

Bastian Valoron wrote:
The reasoning used here could be used to justify a surrender of the Republic to the slavers, or cranial micro-controller salesmen, word by word. Perhaps this is exactly what has happened here. This is of course an internal matter of the Minmatar people but it's still disappointing to see how their spirit is gradually crumbling and how a person can be blinded by greed.


Drawing metaphors to evils that have plagued the Matari people, and accusing good Halete of being the one to lock the chains. Softening your words with suggestion, while painting as lucid a picture of treachery as you are able. Shame on you, sir. If you see this as an evil, speak clearly. You do your people a disservice.

You're better than this, Pilot Valoron - the word valor is in your very name. If you feel something to be so, say it clearly and proudly. You're above this petty slander. Shame on you, sir. You do your people a disservice.
Bastian Valoron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-06-20 17:29:09 UTC
I'm just pointing out what should be blatantly obvious for anyone with elementary reading comprehension skills. Gullibility has just been taken advantage of.

This should be primarily a concern for the Matari people and as it has been suggested, I shall refrain from commenting the matter any further.
Kohiko Sun
Stormcrows
#47 - 2012-06-20 18:20:39 UTC
Gottii wrote:
They kill our kin in the Federation. They aid the enslavers of our kin in the Empire, and go out of their way to profit from it.
Hi, Jacob. I thought I was only going to be flying kites with you on Pator this weekend, not doing any of that.
Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#48 - 2012-06-20 18:30:52 UTC
I feel the need to respond one by one to the baseless accusations of people such as Valoron and Nardieu, but to do so would be a pointless waste of time (being that I would be repeating myself for the...countless-th time now).

Instead, I invite anyone who questions the goodwill of the Cal-Matari Program to contact me to obtain further information and perhaps I can kill any further suppositions from being formulated.



If you will instead choose to ignore the generous offer of my time and continue to spout nonsense from your mouth, I invite you to come down to Syndicate in your most expensive clone. Good day.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-06-20 19:11:16 UTC
Saisa Korsavius-haan,

It is a sad thing when the sincerity of good intentions are challenged to the point of provoking a response akin to the one you have provided. It is, in some small part, exactly what such challenges are meant to do.

Those that know your character and those that are truly interested in learning and assisting will approach you with hearts and minds that reflect these desires. Those that only seek to instigate and profane will approach you with hearts and minds that reflect these desires.

Do not let yourself be provoked by the latter. I have traveled that path and it is wrought with thorns and brambles.

May your horizons be clear and your future profitable, suuolo.

~Malcolm Khross

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#50 - 2012-06-20 19:23:23 UTC
I'm all about efficiency, my friend. Being that repeating myself over and over again would violate such a vital ideal, I opted out for the most efficient manner in which to deal with the situation, or rather, the problem itself.

The logic is sound, rest assured.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#51 - 2012-06-20 19:54:52 UTC
Korsavius wrote:


If you will instead choose to ignore the generous offer of my time and continue to spout nonsense from your mouth, I invite you to come down to Syndicate in your most expensive clone. Good day.


It sounds like someone is getting too big for their britches.





Sabik now, Sabik forever

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#52 - 2012-06-20 20:20:05 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Korsavius wrote:


If you will instead choose to ignore the generous offer of my time and continue to spout nonsense from your mouth, I invite you to come down to Syndicate in your most expensive clone. Good day.


It sounds like someone is getting too big for their britches.


I beg your pardon? I simply wanted them to meet me in their best form for a delicious cup of tea. Maybe give them a good slap or two, and then send them off back home on their merry way...with perhaps a goodie bag or two to help motivate them to change their views.

If you were insinuating that I would dare shoot at them, you are clearly mistaken. There are plenty of pirate gatecamps along the path to my home for shooting to be exchanged.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-06-20 21:17:16 UTC
Korsavius wrote:
I simply wanted them to meet me in their best form for a delicious cup of tea.


How silly of me.

Perhaps sometime I'll invite you over for a cup as well, pilot.

Carry on.






Sabik now, Sabik forever

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#54 - 2012-06-20 22:34:09 UTC
I think I would enjoy that very much, Vitalia. Heck, I can even bring you a sample of traditional Hek'len!

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#55 - 2012-06-21 01:40:57 UTC
Halete wrote:
[i]YC 114, 19th of June.
The refugees which immigrate to the Gallente may know comfort, but at the price of their own Matari blood.


I wonder if this statement will be as offensive to those Matar who have made the Federation their home for generations, as it was to me. Our assistance was given when needed and without condition. I hope you get as good a deal from the State. Perhaps you should question your spirits about gratitude.
Sebiros
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-06-21 02:38:16 UTC
All the time i have passed working as a Diplomat for the Federation within the Republic this debate never ceased and i dont think it will ever cease to rage on.

Yes of course the Federation gains from the cooperation of the Republic, last time i checked ANY basic human cooperation, from friendship to complex trade agreements had that perk. I sit to be friend with you because i enjoy your company/ the profits you are giving to my Corporation and so on. Now you see words and ideals and how and what you use do matter. You see we Gallente did not came initially to tell the Matar, '' we ll help you get free by the evil Amarr only if you give us trading rights later on..'' No. On the contrary, we simply offered our help because first of all what the Empire is doing and was doing at the time, goes against the same existence of the Gallente. The empire with its ideals is a true and critical threat to the Federation(even if right now it is not, it will always will be more than the Caldari). We leave them grow larger and keep thinking the way they do and soon the Federation would be next, and even the State could be next(dont forget they are circumstantial allies and they barely help each other after all).

So you can look at this one way and say that the Federation is the evil schemer trying to impose ideals and whatever else. OR you can look at this and say, the Federation is trying to actually make a better universe. Where oppression and slaves should be abolished and those who were deemed to be slaves can actually have a shot of their own, to create on their own, dream and work. I saw some funny remarks of Quafe and other big names of the Federation and how if the Republic will take those products from its markets '' you ll see what happens''. Whoever thinks that way goes to show you how close minded he/she is. We are not the Caldari who will boss you around. We will simply see it as an insult, we will react on those insults and we will react, but we will never boss you around. We leave that to the Caldari and no matter what they keep on saying, their actions and their ideals speak louder than their words.
But to prove how close minded some people are, i ll pose another scenario. I dont believe that there is even one person in here who believes that the Federation, should Matar corporations or individuals make a great product wouldnt welcome the competition. You dont like that Quafe has almost a monopoly? try to compete. We never said no to do that, competition is even better for us Gallenteans, it shows us that we have made mistakes to allow our competitors to gain on us and we try to become better. Can you actually accuse us of being more aggressive and unfair from the Caldari in the way of doing business? No, the Caldari even if you are foe or ally, if you go directly on competition with them, they dont like it. They ll try ANY WAY to actually get you down. We on the other(our history proves that) are more civil. We will try, and if we will lose, then we will keep on trying no matter what, but you can be sure we will not boss you around, we will not intimidate you and we will not try to threaten you physically or in any of that form. Why? because the creeds of the Gallentean society dictates us so. We may not even like it ourselves sometimes but we do follow them, and whoever does not, its his/her rightful right but that doesnt mean that it is not the Gallentean society's right to cast them away. It was their choice after all.

You see, above close minded people can find enough food to go on and say that i am actually saying without saying that we Gallenteans are putting up a mask and we bring the situations in such a way that one can either be against us or for us. and that is evil.
My response to that is the following:

Last time i checked human beings were behaving with the manner of either you are with me or against me since the beginning of their time. However, last time i checked the Federation was the only place that welcomed diversity and other opinions more than any other faction in the Galaxy. You can be Gallente and hate our government and nobody will say anything. But you can not be Caldari and go directly against Heth himself. you can and may say that you dont agree with whatever Heth may have been doing but you can never actually challenge the guy unless he either do a huge mistake or if anything through violence will change. And that does not just stands up for Heth but for anyone within the Caldari State. We on the other hand have created a whole political system which embraces conflict(within limits) in order to change seats of power and change leaders that the people(not just the Corporations) want to.

My personal belief in all this is that if any Matar individual wishes to go with the Caldari it has the full freedom to do so. People who want to enter such a society then its just better so to leave them do it, see how painful it is by themselves. They are all hypocrites for not saying that they can not win power through democratic means. Yes exactly hypocrites and i ll tell you why.

Its the same principles with different context(for all of you who will start saying to me that my example is not an accurate one you better think what i am saying really good) as to what Nation does and what we do to Nation. Nobody bothers saying us capsuleers how awful we are for trying to change the minds of the Nation and that we shouldnt try through war to change and convince people who are aligning with the Nation. Most of us pose the notion that Sansha is evil and i sure as hell believe so, but then again the Federation is preaching that the Empire is evil but most of people especially within the State dont want to listen because they gain power through those two systems. An the reason why they dont listen is because they have been raised in such a manner.
Sebiros
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-06-21 02:44:47 UTC
* Continues as word number allows currently*

.... You see in the Empire and the State EVERYTHING has a hidden motive. Thus, they can never actually think that the people of the Federation dont always have a hidden motive on what they do. This is the beauty of being a Gallentean, that you are not always being driven by hidden motives, and that is the reason entertainment is a big thing for us, we dont like to over think sometimes, we like to feel and act on that, and that is the reason for me we have invested in the first time to the Matar people. Because we FELT we had to be with them. and we did.


All of the above are my own personal beliefs, i know there are people who dont act as true Gallenteans, people who within the Empire and the State are good and dont react and act with a bad manner etc. My beliefs are based on what is widely accepted for each faction with a combination of my own beliefs and my own experiences. There are great democrats within the State as there are tyrants within the Federation. Everyone is different deep down, however these are general truths with a combination of my beliefs and my experiences i say it again so i wont get misunderstood.

Sebiros
Hans Nardieu
Federal Nationalist Party
#58 - 2012-06-21 06:33:26 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Besides, weren't you the very one that stated "it is desirable and inevitable that an inferior culture be absorbed by a superior one?"


Yes indeed. That was I and I do not stray from that. I assert that there are certain absolutes of moral behaviour to which all humanity should be held. These moral truths are not subject to the whims of culture; they are universal truths.

As I said in an earlier speech, those civilisations which defend humanity seem to us to be more advanced than those that do not. Those which defend liberty, equality and fraternity, seem to us superior to those which accept tyranny, the subservience of women, social and ethnic hatred.

With this understanding, it is only reasonable that I should stand to oppose cultures and civilisations which are morally inferior to ours.

I like you, M. Khross. I admire your plain speaking manner and the way in which you are unapologetically Caldari. You act in the manner of a true warrior, and the benefit of the warrior is that he is able to look his enemy in the eye. And you are and always will be my enemy.

I also do not resent for one second your Pilot's attempt to win the Minmatar away from the side of the Gallente. It makes tactical sense to try and fracture our alliance. If it were possible, I would try and do the same to you and the Amarr. Do not mistake my intent. Any alliance whose purpose is not the intention to wage war is senseless and useless.

As a Gallente I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.

Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2012-06-21 06:46:35 UTC
So then. Almost no Matari will speak with me or against me?

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Ssakaa
Animatar Foundation
#60 - 2012-06-21 10:21:56 UTC
Halete wrote:
So then. Almost no Matari will speak with me or against me?


Let's play a word game, Halete.

Caldari State. Derelik.

Any comments?

Thanks.

"Modern Life is Rubbish"