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Widow Cain
#1 - 2012-06-17 18:38:31 UTC
Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

Simple question, assuming maxed skills how does the T3 ship with the probe bonuses stack up against the TII frigate, just on probe capabilites, obviously the rest of the ship is very different.

I was wondering if I fly a Legion will I be taking a big hit on my probes?

OMG You are sooo pixel macho...
Mr Majestyk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-06-17 18:53:45 UTC
Widow Cain wrote:
Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

Simple question, assuming maxed skills how does the T3 ship with the probe bonuses stack up against the TII frigate, just on probe capabilites, obviously the rest of the ship is very different.

I was wondering if I fly a Legion will I be taking a big hit on my probes?



Both a T3 and a T2 Frig will have the same scan strength. The nice thing with the T3 is Interdiciton Null, Easier to skill for max (Sub System 5 vs Covert ops 5), can do Damage and has a large tank but is more expensive.

A virtued RSS legion and Helios both get 186 scan strength so there is no loss from one ship to the other.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-06-18 00:57:45 UTC
The above is not correct.
Firstly, a maxed covops with implants has 198 strength, not 186.
Secondly, T3s may get the same bonus to probes as a covops but since they have 3 rig slots, no one is going to fit 2 probing rigs on them which results in lower strength.
Most commonly they will have 1 T2 probing rig and 2 buffer rigs.

A probing T3 is very easy to catch compared to a covops and generally ends up looking bad on your kill board.

A covert T3 is useful in some cases, a probing T3 is not. (there's a big difference.)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Cephara Naloe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-06-20 13:57:18 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
A covert T3 is useful in some cases, a probing T3 is not. (there's a big difference.)


I disagree with you on this point. Probing in a T3 ship is very usefull in WH for instance. Once you get in a new fresh WH you can use you T3 prober as a recon tracking down your target then tackle it and stand until reinforcements.
With you covops you can only make a warp point for your gang but not tackle enought time to kill the target (BS or BC's on an anomaly for instance).
Some time NPC switch on your tackler too so a covops will do nothing unless a bad PVE killmail...

"L'amour fait l'espoir, l'espoir fait chier." Un crétin.
Efraya
V0LTA
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#5 - 2012-06-20 14:48:41 UTC
Cephara Naloe wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
A covert T3 is useful in some cases, a probing T3 is not. (there's a big difference.)


I disagree with you on this point. Probing in a T3 ship is very usefull in WH for instance. Once you get in a new fresh WH you can use you T3 prober as a recon tracking down your target then tackle it and stand until reinforcements.
With you covops you can only make a warp point for your gang but not tackle enought time to kill the target (BS or BC's on an anomaly for instance).
Some time NPC switch on your tackler too so a covops will do nothing unless a bad PVE killmail...



Oh lawdy....

[b][center]WSpace; Dead space.[/center] [center]Lady Spank for forum mod[/center][/b]
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#6 - 2012-06-20 14:52:14 UTC
Cephara Naloe wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
A covert T3 is useful in some cases, a probing T3 is not. (there's a big difference.)


I disagree with you on this point. Probing in a T3 ship is very usefull in WH for instance. Once you get in a new fresh WH you can use you T3 prober as a recon tracking down your target then tackle it and stand until reinforcements.
With you covops you can only make a warp point for your gang but not tackle enought time to kill the target (BS or BC's on an anomaly for instance).
Some time NPC switch on your tackler too so a covops will do nothing unless a bad PVE killmail...


Cause u need probes to find bc's and battleships on anomalies, we all know that.

lol
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-06-20 15:44:34 UTC
Ya Huei wrote:
Cephara Naloe wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
A covert T3 is useful in some cases, a probing T3 is not. (there's a big difference.)


I disagree with you on this point. Probing in a T3 ship is very usefull in WH for instance. Once you get in a new fresh WH you can use you T3 prober as a recon tracking down your target then tackle it and stand until reinforcements.
With you covops you can only make a warp point for your gang but not tackle enought time to kill the target (BS or BC's on an anomaly for instance).
Some time NPC switch on your tackler too so a covops will do nothing unless a bad PVE killmail...


Cause u need probes to find bc's and battleships on anomalies, we all know that.

lol



Yeah, no one in w-space will ever do scannable sites like Mags or Ladars. Like EVER.

Cephara Naloe is 100% correct, in w-space a T3 probing ship reigns supreme since it can scan and tackle. Many a times we caught an innocent passerby that a cov ops simply could not handle.
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#8 - 2012-06-20 17:54:00 UTC
Nope.

The only reason u will ever need a T3 covops prober is when the target is within directional range of the wh u come from, and the target is in a cosmic signature in a ship that will pop the covert ops before reinforcements arrive.

Otherwise a regular covert ops fit non probie T3 is always the better choice.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-06-20 18:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnaw LF
Ya Huei wrote:
Nope.

The only reason u will ever need a T3 covops prober is when the target is within directional range of the wh u come from, and the target is in a cosmic signature in a ship that will pop the covert ops before reinforcements arrive.

Otherwise a regular covert ops fit non probie T3 is always the better choice.



Yeah, no one ever collapses 2b or 3b non-cap connections with a bunch of Orcas and BSs. No one ever comes to help their buddies in sites or uses a bunch of drones that will pop the cov op. You are arguing for the sake of arguing when in fact T3s have so many advantages:

-Solo tackle. Larger Tank and Better survival
-Scan down ships in anoms close to hole then tackle. Reduces risk of being seen on d-scan with dedicated tackle ship.
-Reduces manpower requirement, T3 can tackle instead of requiring dedicated pilot / char.
-Every single bonus counts, higher dps from T3 then cov ops can help in the fight
Helen Nearning
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-06-20 18:27:15 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
Ya Huei wrote:
Nope.

The only reason u will ever need a T3 covops prober is when the target is within directional range of the wh u come from, and the target is in a cosmic signature in a ship that will pop the covert ops before reinforcements arrive.

Otherwise a regular covert ops fit non probie T3 is always the better choice.



Yeah, no one ever collapses 2b or 3b non-cap connections with a bunch of Orcas and BSs. No one ever comes to help their buddies in sites or uses a bunch of drones that will pop the cov op. You are arguing for the sake of arguing when in fact T3s have so many advantages:

-Solo tackle. Larger Tank and Better survival
-Scan down ships in anoms close to hole then tackle. Reduces risk of being seen on d-scan with dedicated tackle ship.
-Reduces manpower requirement, T3 can tackle instead of requiring dedicated pilot / char.
-Every single bonus counts, higher dps from T3 then cov ops can help in the fight


Did you read what he said? Here... "Otherwise a regular covert ops fit non probie T3 is always the better choice."
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-06-20 19:39:52 UTC
Helen Nearning wrote:


Did you read what he said? Here... "Otherwise a regular covert ops fit non probie T3 is always the better choice."



Yeah, what he said in that sentence made no sense. So is it a cover ops firt T3 without probes? Or a non covert ops T3? Who the hell knows? Point is, he is wrong.
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
#12 - 2012-06-20 19:54:46 UTC
Now who's arguing for the sake of it.

a cloak T3 WITHOUT a "Emergent Locus Analyzer" but WITH covert reconfiguration is a "cloaky non prober"

if u can guess what a cloaky prober is, you've won a cookie.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-06-20 20:08:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnaw LF
Ya Huei wrote:
Now who's arguing for the sake of it.

a cloak T3 WITHOUT a "Emergent Locus Analyzer" but WITH covert reconfiguration is a "cloaky non prober"

if u can guess what a cloaky prober is, you've won a cookie.






Because hiding on the other side of the hole is no longer sufficient. A cloaky, non prober for combat! Now, I've heard everything.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#14 - 2012-06-20 21:11:13 UTC
Put a point on your cov-ops frig and get transversal when tackling. This works just fine in most cases and puts hair on your chest. Naturally, this makes you a man.

No trolling please
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#15 - 2012-06-20 21:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Godfrey Silvarna
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Put a point on your cov-ops frig and get transversal when tackling. This works just fine in most cases and puts hair on your chest. Naturally, this makes you a man.

And sometimes gets you in a lot of killmails, even solo ones. NEVER under-estimate a helios with a t2 drone, NEVER.

For proof, a friend's probe alt: http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=985278
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#16 - 2012-06-20 21:35:27 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
NEVER under-estimate a helios with a t2 drone, NEVER.


This.

No trolling please
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-06-21 06:55:03 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
NEVER under-estimate a helios with a t2 drone, NEVER.


This.


my standard probing buzzard will kill any probing helios easy.
having destructible DPS in the form of a drone is a sure way to lose any fight against another covops.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
chris elliot
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#18 - 2012-06-21 08:56:14 UTC  |  Edited by: chris elliot
Widow Cain wrote:
Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

Simple question, assuming maxed skills how does the T3 ship with the probe bonuses stack up against the TII frigate, just on probe capabilites, obviously the rest of the ship is very different.

I was wondering if I fly a Legion will I be taking a big hit on my probes?



It stacks up against a T2 frig about as well as you would expect something that costs 6-8 times as much to stack up.
Mr Bigwinky
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-06-21 14:48:02 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
A covert T3 is useful in some cases, a probing T3 is not. (there's a big difference.)
I've yet to see you write a post that doesn't make you seem like a miserable sod who just enjoys arguing. Anyway:

Just a couple of days ago I used a large buffer cloaky Loki to find a WH which I then uncloaked on for a little and got shot at by 2 proteus and a bomber. I left it sitting there whilst I brought people to it who caught murdered one of the Proteus, his pod and the bomber.

That wouldn't have happened in a non-probing T3, nor a scanship given the time-frame and dps I had to sustain. 
Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself ♥
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#20 - 2012-06-21 20:22:41 UTC
Mr Bigwinky wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
A covert T3 is useful in some cases, a probing T3 is not. (there's a big difference.)
I've yet to see you write a post that doesn't make you seem like a miserable sod who just enjoys arguing.

But you see, Jack always knows the truth, the absolute truth. Because things are in one specific way, and you would be much better off listening and absorbing the godly wisdom when he decides to share it with us mortals, still fumbling around in the dark.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com
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