These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Minor Question About Attributes
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Hans Zwaardhandler
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#1 - 2012-06-20 17:42:04 UTC
Just a quick question that I was hoping to have answered since not a lot of people seem to know, but how many points can you have per attribute? Trying to optimize for the next year or so of skill planning, and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere. Also, was out for about nine months from Eve, so I am trying to make up for lost time and catch back up with some of my friends who have soared past me.

Any help and answers are appreciated, and I thank you all in advance.
Killian Redbeard
Ironhand Research and Industrial Corp
#2 - 2012-06-20 17:47:50 UTC
Use Evemon or EveHQ for skill planning and it has a function that will optimize your attributes for your skill plan.
Hans Zwaardhandler
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2012-06-20 18:00:11 UTC
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Use Evemon or EveHQ for skill planning and it has a function that will optimize your attributes for your skill plan.


I do have Evemon, but I am planning on switching out some implants, something I can not do from where I am at due to the low supply of cash and the low amount of the implants that I want at this location, and also sense the current plan I have calls on me to boost Perception up by a large amount till it fills the bar in the program to show what you should allocate points in. Trying to ask, as I plan on eventually getting a set of +5s to help the skill training along.
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-06-20 18:13:58 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Killian Redbeard wrote:
Use Evemon or EveHQ for skill planning and it has a function that will optimize your attributes for your skill plan.


I do have Evemon, but I am planning on switching out some implants, something I can not do from where I am at due to the low supply of cash and the low amount of the implants that I want at this location, and also sense the current plan I have calls on me to boost Perception up by a large amount till it fills the bar in the program to show what you should allocate points in. Trying to ask, as I plan on eventually getting a set of +5s to help the skill training along.


There is an option on evemon to add implants too.
Joe Hinken
Cetan Consortium
#5 - 2012-06-20 18:18:53 UTC
IIRC, if you log in you can play with your attributes via the Remap to see how high you can get the relevant ones, just don't save the changes until you're happy.

Brick Royl > bad timing the isk is deflating fatser then a baloon in a cactus shop
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2012-06-20 18:22:02 UTC
27 max (+ implants on top)

17 minimum

14 points to distribute between 5 attributes.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Hans Zwaardhandler
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2012-06-20 18:24:50 UTC
Ah, thank you all, I will work on that later on.
Freezehunter
#8 - 2012-06-20 18:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
I also have a minor question about attributes.

When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game.

Just have a set training time from level one to level five on all tiers.

Tier one:

Lvl1 5 min
Lvl 2 30 min
Lvl 3 5 hours
Lvl 4 20 hours
Lvl 5 2 days

Tier two (2x):

Lvl 1 10min
Lvl 2 1 hour
Lvl 3 10 hours
Lvl 4 40 hours
Lvl 5 4 days

And so on and so forth.

Also, do away with the attribute implant system and replace them with actual **** you can use in combat, like cheaper, more useful and less powerful versions of the T2 combat implants.

I'd much rather lose a combat equipped clone that givesme some actual benefits in PVP and is WORTH losing, than waste money on ******* learning implants + the super expensive 90 mil clone I have every time I get podded, just to not train slowly.

Just put everyone on the same learning time across all tiers to make it balanced.

This would also encourage newer players with less money to PVP, because they won't go like "Oh, I can't come pvp with you guys because I am in my expensive learning clone".

And don't start with "But you have jump clones", new-ish characters have to grind standings for ages to get access to a jump clone in the first place, this encourages endless mission running instead of PVPing, and we wonder why some people only do missions, get bored and quit the game.

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#9 - 2012-06-20 18:39:16 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
I also have a minor question about attributes.

When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game.

Just have a set training time from level one to level five on all tiers.

Tier one:

Lvl1 5 min
Lvl 2 30 min
Lvl 3 5 hours
Lvl 4 20 hours
Lvl 5 2 days

Tier two (2x):

Lvl 1 10min
Lvl 2 1 hour
Lvl 3 10 hours
Lvl 4 40 hours
Lvl 5 4 days

And so on and so forth.

Also, do away with the attribute system and replace them with actual **** you can use in combat, like cheaper, more useful and less powerful versions of the T2 combat implants.

I'd much rather lose a combat equipped clone that givesme some actual benefits in PVP and is WORTH losing, than waste money on ******* learning implants + the super expensive 90 mil clone I have every time I get podded, just to not train slowly.

Just put everyone on the same learning time across all tiers to make it balanced.

This would also encourage newer players with less money to PVP, because they won't go like "Oh, I can't come pvp with you guys because I am in my expensive learning clone".

And don't start with "But you have jump clones", new-ish characters have to grind standings for ages to get access to a jump clone in the first place, this encourages endless mission running instead of PVPing, and we wonder why some people only do missions, get bored and quit the game.



how about no
Freezehunter
#10 - 2012-06-20 18:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Morganta wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
I also have a minor question about attributes.

When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game.

Just have a set training time from level one to level five on all tiers.

Tier one:

Lvl1 5 min
Lvl 2 30 min
Lvl 3 5 hours
Lvl 4 20 hours
Lvl 5 2 days

Tier two (2x):

Lvl 1 10min
Lvl 2 1 hour
Lvl 3 10 hours
Lvl 4 40 hours
Lvl 5 4 days

And so on and so forth.

Also, do away with the attribute system and replace them with actual **** you can use in combat, like cheaper, more useful and less powerful versions of the T2 combat implants.

I'd much rather lose a combat equipped clone that givesme some actual benefits in PVP and is WORTH losing, than waste money on ******* learning implants + the super expensive 90 mil clone I have every time I get podded, just to not train slowly.

Just put everyone on the same learning time across all tiers to make it balanced.

This would also encourage newer players with less money to PVP, because they won't go like "Oh, I can't come pvp with you guys because I am in my expensive learning clone".

And don't start with "But you have jump clones", new-ish characters have to grind standings for ages to get access to a jump clone in the first place, this encourages endless mission running instead of PVPing, and we wonder why some people only do missions, get bored and quit the game.



how about no


How about you make a decent post for once, instead of your usual trolling bullshit, Morg?

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2012-06-20 18:44:48 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
I also have a minor question about attributes.

When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game.
…aside from creating choices, cost/benefit decisions, and long-term planning. All of them good things.

Unlike learning skills, they are not a pointless meta-mechanic that makes it more effective not to play the game for the first few months. The two are not particularly alike.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#12 - 2012-06-20 18:46:28 UTC
One of EVE's principles (regarding the skill system) is "You can do anything, but you can't do everything"

By having attributes and variable speeds of training, it encourages specialization without locking you out of specific skills. A combat pilot can pick up a few trade skills on the side if they're willing to tolerate a slower training rate, but they are encouraged to focus on ships, guns and other combat related items, as those give them the most ideal SP/Hour.

Remaps give us some flexibility to shift focus, but given their very limited nature, they still encourage specialization.

Allowing all players to train all types of skills at equal speed would discourage specialization by allowing everyone to dabble in things they normally don't without any penalty. Having to plan out your skill training while factoring in your short term goals, long term goals, current attributes and available remaps is part of EVE's complexity that (IMHO) improves the experience.

Specialization also encourages inter-dependency. Inter-dependency encourages player interaction.

Of course, nothing is stopping you from having completely (or almost completely) even stats if you choose to remap that way. You gain flexibility but you lose out on those 2500 + sp/hour training rates you get when training up skills you are geared for.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-06-20 18:48:08 UTC
You get 14 attributes to place on your remap, and you can place up to 10 in any one attribute. The most common and most important skill-attribute setups are perception and willpower (gunnery, missile launchers, most ship command), and intelligence and memory (electronics, engineering, mechanics, science, industry). You can also train the outliers on one of those two plans, if you just choose by their primary attribute, and then you can have a final charisma remap for the skills that are primarily charisma (leadership).

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Freezehunter
#14 - 2012-06-20 18:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Freezehunter
Tippia wrote:
Freezehunter wrote:
I also have a minor question about attributes.

When are they being removed, they are as redundant and ******** as Learning skills were.
This game is not WoW, we do not NEED attributes in this game.
…aside from creating choices, cost/benefit decisions, and long-term planning. All of them good things.

Unlike learning skills, they are not a pointless meta-mechanic that makes it more effective not to play the game for the first few months. The two are not particularly alike.


And what choices do attribute implants give you?

Train fast or train slow?

Pfft...

I'd rather have my system.

Everyone trains at the same speed and uses PVP implants instead.

I'd much rather blow money on PVP implants in the first 5 slots than learning implants.

Not to mention that high sec mission runners can just have a +5 set forever with no risk and they never lose it.

What's the matter, are all the mission runners afraid that they won't make boat loads of ISK by getting implants with LP and selling them anymore?

Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-06-20 18:51:29 UTC
Freezehunter wrote:
Not to mention that high sec mission runners can just have a +5 set forever with no risk and they never use it.

I think a good solution to this would be illegal pirate attribute implants that are cheaper than regular implants. Then everyone can afford to wear attribute implants at at least +3. And you still have slots 6-10 for pvp implants.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#16 - 2012-06-20 18:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Freezehunter wrote:
And what choices do attribute implants give you?
The same.

Quote:
I'd much rather blow money on PVP implants in the first 5 slots than learning implants.
Then do so. The choice is yours. That's what this system offers, unlike what you're proposing.

I can't see a good case for restricting a system that already offers what you want out of it to only offering what you want.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#17 - 2012-06-20 18:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinstar Colton
Attribute implants are about risk vs reward

The more expensive implants you install, the greater your reward (from higher SP training rates) but the more financial risk you being podded becomes. Those +5 pilots in high sec? Missing out on the rewards of low/null/wh and they aren't immune unless they never undock.

Players can tilt the risk/reward ratio in their favor by use of jump clones, but this just allows you to dial up and down your risk/reward. When you hop into an implantless clone to go WH hopping, you are giving up your higher skill training rate (for the time being) while shielding yourself from excess financial loss if you get bubbled and podded.


The Risk/Reward dynamic is what keeps attribute implants a meaningful choice and absolutely nothing like the abomination that was learning skills. It doesn't take long at all for a new player to get Science IV, Cybernetics I and get +3 implants.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Spurty
#18 - 2012-06-20 18:57:40 UTC
Posting in the sort of thread, the like of which I've not seen since 2007 days!

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-06-20 19:04:54 UTC
You can train at a set speed across the board any time you want. Don't remap and don't implant. Done.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-06-20 19:05:48 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Posting in the sort of thread, the like of which I've not seen since 2007 days!


Those years must have been hard on you, since you turned in to a black man during that time.


@attribute topic

Removing them isn't necessary to address the PvP concerns they create. Doing so would only remove options and consequenses from th game and turn things uniform and uninteresting. Do not want.
12Next page