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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#281 - 2012-06-20 17:29:39 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
dontbanmebro wrote:
Riedle wrote:
PS: With the amount of anger coming from some of the biggest users of JB's, I'd say we are on the right track with nerfing them.


"We should deport all x people from our country because they're all actually subversive fifth columnists for martians. Look how mad all these x people are getting, we must be on the right track."

Seriously, seriously, seriously dumb argument. Like 5th grade child level. Are you, by chance, ten years old? If so, I apologize.

Shh, he thinks we use jumpbridges to freighter ships all the way down from deklein to delve, and that we always take the jumpbridge while travelling from vfk to whatever system in delve when we go for our annual freeport session in delve.


Surely if you aren't ever using JB's you wouldn't have set so many of them up and you wouldn't be so adamently opposed to nerfing the crap out of them would you?

lol
Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#282 - 2012-06-20 17:31:22 UTC
Read first page. Usual post of people ignoring the problem, as does the OP.


Want to fix 0.0?

REMOVE JUMP BRIDGES

Jump bridges allow groups/individuals to bypass swaths of space with a click of a button. Those pilots would be moving though all those empty systems if there were no jump bridges and then you would have the chance to have a fight.

No jump bridges means that Back up is not a minute away from around the region, not minutes away from AROUND EVE

No Jump Bridges means putting everyone near you Blue means you have to make a 60 jump run just to get near someone you can shoot at.

No Jump Bridges means a large alliances can not effectively hold oversize swaths of space. They can still claim that space but if it takes an hour to get the 200 pilots they need to kill some ratter in a Raven who set up a small POS in a back end system somewhere they would not make the effort.

Jump Bridges mean an easy time gathering scattered pilots which means larger gangs which in turn translates into needing to field larger gangs to fight them which means you have to spend more time waiting for more pilots so they spend more time getting more pilots so.... and there goes small gang/solo PvP.

Why take a 5 man gang into Sov space? The locals will run and hide until they can get 50 of their bestest friends from around Eve to come to "fight" the 5 man gang. All thanks to Jump Bridges. (True story)


If you want GOOD Pvp, if you want small gang and solo PvP, go to Syndicate and don't bring your Titan. Syndicate, and to a lesser extent other regions like Stain and Curse, provide the PvP that most people are looking for in Eve. You have to live in the space you own and you have to fight for that space daily to control it, you only have to go a few jumps (sometimes only one, sometimes you only have to warp to the other station in system) to find reds to fight. PvP all day, every day, across all time zones. Why? NO FREAKING JUMP BRIDGES.

Thanks for ignoring what I say because I am in an NPC corp and am not one of the sheep in the large 0.0 alliances that are too lazy to play Eve without Jump Bridges.

(I just woke up so a little grumpy, deal with it.)
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#283 - 2012-06-20 17:32:17 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Reading this thread makes me wonder if the lvl of "disagreement" in the Greek parliament is not has high has in here.

But here is my two cents anyway on the matter. In order to "revive" Null, maybe CCP needs to :

1- Lower the ability of power projection in the game. (make the galaxy feel immense and not like a small board game)
2- Remove all the free intel that is currently available.
3- Allow the ability to fly between systems and at the same time find new and more dynamic ways of catching ships.
4- Do something about Tech moon concentration. (balance tech goo throughout the galaxy)
5- Remove AFK cloacking from the game.
6- Introduce the "Line Of Sight" factor. (no more firing through objects)

I am sure a lot of people will disagree with the above. Some would probably even unsub if CCP would go ahead with only one of them. On the long run however, I have a feeling these changes would make 0.0 more fun to venture in.


If you want this stuff it already exists. Its called wormhole space. Go there.
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#284 - 2012-06-20 17:33:02 UTC
CCP likes blobs. They like mass warfare. They want to be able to say they packed x thousand faggots into one system for epic "player-driven content". Soundwave and the new head baldin guy said as much multiple times during presentations last fanfest.

I personally don't like blobs, but you're mistaken if you think CCP wants to reduce the incentive for blobbing. What they want to do is reduce a group's ability to control vast swathes of space it doesn't use or it "underuses", and nerfing JBs will be in direct violation of that.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#285 - 2012-06-20 17:34:04 UTC
hey check this small gang PvP video CCP made for promotional purposes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDVEHE10nHc

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#286 - 2012-06-20 17:34:21 UTC
Riedle wrote:
Surely if you aren't ever using JB's you wouldn't have set so many of them up and you wouldn't be so adamently opposed to nerfing the crap out of them would you?


Except it's already been explained multiple times that they are used and what exactly they're used for, it's just not "power projection" like you claim.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#287 - 2012-06-20 17:35:02 UTC
Jacque Cruix wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Shh, he thinks we use jumpbridges to freighter ships all the way down from deklein to delve, and that we always take the jumpbridge while travelling from vfk to whatever system in delve when we go for our annual freeport session in delve.


We had some jump bridge networks that would take you from deep 0.0 accross 3 regions and drop you 1 jump out of low sec with very little risk.

We only used about 6-8 bridges and maybe 3-5 gate jumps here and there to go what would have been 30-40 gate jumps without.

Far less risk, and that does affect strategic mobility and power projection.

So you were part of the NC

Please, tell Zim what it was like to be part of the NC
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#288 - 2012-06-20 17:35:22 UTC
Riedle wrote:
Anyways, I'm not saying there shouldn't be any BLOB warfare, so relax my little lemming friend - I'm just saying it should be a little harder to project the BLOBS power around the vast reaches of New Eden. So relax, you will still have your FC barking orders to you if we nerf jump bridges.

So you're going to keep on thinking that jumpbridges are the force projection tools, and completely ignore jumpfreighters, carriers, rorquals, dreads, supercarriers and titans? I mean, the three first ones are pretty instrumental in setting up staging systems, but no, you're right, we were definitely taking the trip from vfk to zxb and beyond and back again every day, because travelling is SO MUCH FUN.

Hint: You're wrong.
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
god forbid a new profession should be introduced into the game: Moon Surveyor.

lets keep the game stale.

Okay. How would this make scanning a whole region multiple times a year not suck dicks?



I think you missed the idea of the whole new profession. You don't have to be the one doing it.

So you don't have an idea on how to make scanning a whole region multiple times a year not suck dicks, but you're going to push for it anyways?

And I suppose you're definitely not going to whine about how T2 prices are skyrocketing because people just can't be arsed to find them anymore. Right?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#289 - 2012-06-20 17:35:49 UTC
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:
If null is loosing more players than they can keep then it is player driven content that is the problem.


I'd suggest going to page 10 and reading about our conversation on Null Sec Industry. Farms & Fields and whatnot.


Null sec industry is not meant to be self sufficient. Working as intended. But then neither is high sec, as can not build capital ships, working as intended.


So again, you should really go read page 10-12, then come back and tell me its "working as intended".
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#290 - 2012-06-20 17:36:53 UTC
Jacque Cruix wrote:
We only used about 6-8 bridges and maybe 3-5 gate jumps here


cool so your anecdote has been irrelevant since Incarna when they limited jump bridges to 1 per system

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#291 - 2012-06-20 17:37:39 UTC
dontbanmebro wrote:
CCP likes blobs. They like mass warfare. They want to be able to say they packed x thousand faggots into one system for epic "player-driven content". Soundwave and the new head baldin guy said as much multiple times during presentations last fanfest.

I personally don't like blobs, but you're mistaken if you think CCP wants to reduce the incentive for blobbing. What they want to do is reduce a group's ability to control vast swathes of space it doesn't use or it "underuses", and nerfing JBs will be in direct violation of that.



Well for someone who likes to tell others they are dumb, this is sure a dumb argument. JB's won't get rid of blob warfare, in fact is will likely make it more common as there will be more fights with your neighbours for SOV. JB's will just make it harder to move that BLOB all over New Eden which will do exactly this:
Quote:
What they want to do is reduce a group's ability to control vast swathes of space it doesn't use or it "underuses",



lol try again Einstein.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#292 - 2012-06-20 17:39:25 UTC
dontbanmebro wrote:
Riedle wrote:
Surely if you aren't ever using JB's you wouldn't have set so many of them up and you wouldn't be so adamently opposed to nerfing the crap out of them would you?


Except it's already been explained multiple times that they are used and what exactly they're used for, it's just not "power projection" like you claim.


But I know this to be incorrect as I have witnessed it many, many times.

The only people who think JB's are good for null are the nullbears who depend on them.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#293 - 2012-06-20 17:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Rer Eirikr
Riedle wrote:
But I know this to be incorrect as I have witnessed it many, many times.

The only people who think JB's are good for null are the nullbears who depend on them.


Waffles just recently deployed across EVE for a quick assignment, leaving our NPC station in Delve momentarily.

Everyone who had a carrier or JF stocked up on the necessary ships, and within (half an) hour we were 40 jumps away from our original destination. We did not use or need Jump Bridges. This happens with hundreds of null entities, simply on a larger scale for those who have 'THE BLOB'.

Carriers, Titans, NPC Stations, there are numerous ways to "'project force" across EVE, and nerfing JBs really wouldn't do jack all to stop it.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#294 - 2012-06-20 17:43:17 UTC
Quote:
So you're going to keep on thinking that jumpbridges are the force projection tools, and completely ignore jumpfreighters, carriers, rorquals, dreads, supercarriers and titans?


But at least these have to be risked to use them.

In a null world where there are less gigantic napfests because there are nerfed or no jump bridges, there will be that much more risk in using these tools to project your power.

My thoughts on jump bridges weren't the only suggestions that I made - just the one that got your panties in a twist. lol
Jacque Cruix
Doomheim
#295 - 2012-06-20 17:43:37 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jacque Cruix wrote:
We only used about 6-8 bridges and maybe 3-5 gate jumps here


cool so your anecdote has been irrelevant since Incarna when they limited jump bridges to 1 per system


Irrelevant no.

Even with 1 bridge per system you are still skipping all the gate jumps in between that could allow for more pvp.
They went part of the way but not far enough in that fix.
dontbanmebro
Doomheim
#296 - 2012-06-20 17:43:43 UTC
Riedle wrote:
Well for someone who likes to tell others they are dumb...


Your post is literally nonresponsive. I literally cannot continue the line of conversation because your post is irrelevant to the one you quoted and mostly incoherent.

Congratulations.

Again, if you actually are a child, I apologize. I will, however, say that this is generally a more grown-up venue, perhaps not in maturity, but at least in terms of the expectation placed on the command of the English language and basic reasoning.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#297 - 2012-06-20 17:44:30 UTC
Jacque Cruix wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Shh, he thinks we use jumpbridges to freighter ships all the way down from deklein to delve, and that we always take the jumpbridge while travelling from vfk to whatever system in delve when we go for our annual freeport session in delve.


We had some jump bridge networks that would take you from deep 0.0 accross 3 regions and drop you 1 jump out of low sec with very little risk.

We only used about 6-8 bridges and maybe 3-5 gate jumps here and there to go what would have been 30-40 gate jumps without.

Far less risk, and that does affect strategic mobility and power projection.
Not unlike what the helo did for light infantry back in the 60-70s.

First of all, that sounds suspiciously like the NC JB. Which was back when you had 2 JBs in a system so people never had to take gates. Some PVPers bitched and whined for ages about how it let people force project, and how hard it was to interdict people using these JBs (it wasn't hard), so it was changed to 1 pr system so people had to take a gate between each JB. This was supposed to "enliven the PVP". What happened? Absolutely nothing. No change to the amount of ganks.

And how often did you squeeze 150-200 battleships through that bridge, both ways, every day?

Riedle wrote:
Surely if you aren't ever using JB's you wouldn't have set so many of them up and you wouldn't be so adamently opposed to nerfing the crap out of them would you?

Sure, go ahead, nerf them again, I'll be here laughing in your face when it makes absolutely no difference to "force projection", because you're too inept to fathom what it actually is, and what makes the act of taking a system so hard.

Riedle wrote:
lol

Sigh.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#298 - 2012-06-20 17:44:41 UTC
Riedle wrote:
In a null world where there are less gigantic napfests because there are nerfed or no jump bridges, there will be that much more risk in using these tools to project your power.


How would nerfing JBs change the Null political landscape to change NAPs, please, enlighten us.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#299 - 2012-06-20 17:46:05 UTC
Riedle wrote:
But I know this to be incorrect as I have witnessed it many, many times.

The only people who think JB's are good for null are the nullbears who depend on them.

Yes, I'm sure you've actually been in nullsec. You seem to be so well-versed in null mechanics that I have absolutely no problem accepting that as fact.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#300 - 2012-06-20 17:46:18 UTC
you seem to think that nerfing jump bridges would kill off large nullsec blocs, allow small alliances to settle in nullsec and magically fix the game

fun fact: even if force projection was nerfed, the last thing we'd allow to happen is some small alliance setting up near our space - we'd purge them immediately considering that they'd collapse under the threat of an invasion by one of our enemies

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration