Intergalactic Summit

What I find odd here is that no one has yet discussed the top Gallentean cultural exports in New Eden: The Corporate Model and Free-Market Capitalism. Or do people seem to think that Capitalism and Corporatism came into being with the Caldari and Isuuya, almost 167 years after their first contact? Ah, how it warms my heart that people here are so focused on cultural tropes and forget just how well internalized corporations and capital markets have become that even if, hypothetically, the Federation were to vanish there will always now exist at least a small, very important part of the Gallente left in every single part of New Eden.

Say what you may want about the Federation and Gallentean society but we know capitalism and we know it well, so it's unsurprising that we must accept some degree of flak for our inherent success and ability in competing in free-markets. Even if the apoplectic sputtering of Provist-Patriots in the State over how the other Megas don't accept autarky and trade protectionism as an effective economic model never ceases to be amusing. I suppose being a Patriot Corporation in the State means having to wait for the next Imperial welfare bailout to keep the books in the black due to an inability to compete in a free-market, no?



It is superior.

The Gallentean cultural values of liberal free-market capitalism, the centralization of capital and assets into corporate institutions and the concepts of the unrestricted movement of goods, speech, thoughts, and ideas to cultivate a cosmopolitan society are the cornerstones of interstellar society. Protected by CONCORD regulations and practiced by every capsuleer in the cluster.

So if you really want to attack Gallentean culture why don't you criticize capsuleers in general and CONCORD for both hold very similar ideas at heart.

Don't get mad that practically every single capsuleer in New Eden are already practicing what it means to be Gallentean and not Caldari, Monsieur Vikarion.

Well that all depends on your definition of "success".

Garoun Empire: 21658 - 21837 (179 years)
Raata Empire: 17453 - 20998 (3545 years)

Garoun is a continent-nation on Gallente Prime. In effect, it is one nation among the whole of (what today is) the Federation.

The Raata Empire was formed by unification of multiple communities (nations) on Caldari Prime and dissolved into other communities after three-and-a-half-thousand years, which then all became the foundations for the megacorporations that governed the State.

What you are suggesting is that because Garoun, a continent-nation is still a continent-nation it is somehow longer standing than the Raata Empire when the two cannot be compared because one is a unity of many nations (the Raata Empire) and the other is a single nation (Garoun). If you want to compare unification attempts, I have provided the duration, in years, of the Garoun Empire and the Raata Empire.

It was impressive, but it didn't last long enough to be a real threat.

Please, please tell me that you do not think the Gallente idea of capitalism and the Caldari idea of corporate capitalism are the same thing. If you do, allow me to educate you on the differences.

The Gallente have what is known as an individual free market economy, where corporations are composed of working individuals each seeking to earn individual wealth. Wealth is measured in comparison to the wealth of other individuals which each individual seeking simply to gain their own wealth.

The Caldari have what is known as corporate capitalism, where megacorporations (which govern the State with divided jurisdictions and act as governor, police and housing authorities) consist of a multitude of other smaller corporations each working within the jurisdiction of the megacorporation. The competition between each megacorporation (drawn from the sub-competition from each product or service producing subordinate corporation against the same product and service of another subordinate corporation within another megacorporation) forces a social-economic structure that benefits everyone involved with lower prices and better services. Even housing is a competition between the megacorporations, so prices must remain competitive and the quality of housing must remain competitive. Wealth is not measured between individuals because the accumulation of wealth is simply a bi-product of competition, efficiency and market shares which are measured on the corporate level.

The models are not the same.



Emphasis mine. This is the Caldari corporate structure, not the Gallente one. The Gallente, as I explained above, measure capital and assets on an individual level not a corporate one. Corporations are composed entirely of individuals seeking to gain wealth and assets through the corporation and climbing a corporate ladder to increase their pay and assets. This is not a centralization of assets and capital, it is (in fact) a free-market economy.

The Caldari centralize capital and assets on a corporate level which is then leased, sold or distributed by the holding corporation to those under its jurisdiction.

What you have stated is that every capsuleer is practicing what it means to be a capsuleer, not what it means to be a Gallente.

I would agree, however a Caldari Megacorporation that practices a vertically integrated subsidiary structure centered around a financial institution that provides venture capital and loans to corporate subsidiaries under its umbrella is practiced just as much in the Federation, the only fundamental difference being in the purpose and structure of subsidiary divisions due to Federal anti-cartel/monopoly regulations. A slight difference, but a difference nonetheless.

I would say you that your concept of individual free-market economics is a more apt description of some form anarcho-capitalism which is not how corporations or capital markets function in the Federation. "Corporate capitalism" as you describe it differs only from how it is practiced in the State in that Federal corporations, in general, centralize capital and assets to ensure maximum profit and rate of return with a focus on personal entrepeneurship and gaining market share. A Federal corporation still "owns" its assets, capital, and facilities and ownership of the corporation is still dictated by shareholders just as they are in the State.

You appear to be grossly oversimplifying things if you think that just because the Federation places a premium on individual talents, abilities and entrepreneurship that Federal corporations function as communal syndicates is an understandable error. You are Caldari, you simply do not understand how corporations and capitalism works in the Federation. It's much the same in the State, except with certain regulations to prevent undue social unrest that might be caused by corporate corruption and exploitative labour practices.

We certainly would not want something akin to the Provist revolution to occur in the Federation just as it did in the State.




I'm always calm Monsiuer Thessalonia. Perhaps you had one too many lobotomies courtesy of Kuvakei to properly recognize a flippant jab at your expense for what it was.

Or you could always slot in a social adaptation chip. You appear in dire need of one.

This is a marvelous idea, Khross-haan. Such a thread would be a great addition.

EDIT: I think I'd like to comment along these lines, in fact.

One of the major differences between our views on capitalism and the corporate culture is that, in the State, there is a strong social pressure for the executives to avoid indulging themselves or being wasteful with their profits. We call such people kakkushuugista, and it's a wholly negative term. They lose their face when they behave this way. The rise of Tibus Heth was amongst accusing shouts of kakkushuugista, kakkushuugista! It's for this that good Khross-haan claims that Heths' rise was something of a restoration. Sadly, in ridding us of the kakkushuugista, we seemed to have acquired a generation of hnolkugistas, and I'm unsure whether it's a good trade.

The Federation, meanwhile, has no pressure against this. As you say, it's an individualist system versus a collective system. There is nothing wrong with being an individual, but this system does no honour to the simple fact that we live in, and find happiness in, societies.

This is not to say that the Gallente system has nothing to teach us, provided that we are ready to learn.

Being a child of.."complicated" backgrounds, I can't fully say my opinion on Gallente cultural influence.

I certainly have nothing against them, save for the right-wing extremists. I think we can all admire a nation founded upon the principles of freedom and justice. What defines those two terms, however, is an entirely different debate. Personally, I also highly admire the Gallente ideal of progression. This is a belief both the Caldari and Gallente share. I remember quite fondly the few times I visited the Crystal Boulevard in Caille. Gallente architecture and fashion certainly draws in influence from a varying amount of artwork...


As with a number of other pilots have already stated, however, the Gallente have a rather annoying tendency to "force" their ideals upon those who don't share them.

Since Gessanier is doing a better job than me at articulating (not that I consider the realities of his or even my own points a good thing), I'll just point out that the Kingdom of Central Garoun, the Garoun Empire's successor state, has lasted since the latter's collapse.

How do I feel about Gallente cultural influence...

I feel it's their most successful method of waging war. I also feel it's their one redeeming value. The Gallente should quit playing at battleships and focus on exporting their culture - if they do, I wager within 200 years we'll all be Gallente.