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Question about up coming mining barge tweaks

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highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-06-20 14:13:59 UTC
Just seems to me that this buff is going to take away the need to ever even purchase a Hulk. The high price on them wouldnt be worth the slightly higher yield. Especially since they will be easier to blow up than a retriever and they are like more than 10x the cost.,

FC, what do?
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#22 - 2012-06-20 14:15:25 UTC
CCP specifically stated the role of the hulk with these changes is meant to be in a large mining op setting with logistic and tactical support. Something liek a nullsec mining op.

So close...
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-06-20 14:16:34 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
CCP specifically stated the role of the hulk with these changes is meant to be in a large mining op setting with logistic and tactical support. Something liek a nullsec mining op.


Which was what hulks were originally intended for anyway.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#24 - 2012-06-20 14:17:06 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
AFK Hauler wrote:
I wonder how long it will be before we see QQ threads about lost ore - not knowing that an ore bay was even added to the hulk after rebalance.


mining lasers will put ore in the ore bay, not in cargo


CCP is really dumbing the game down these days.


Because mining is just such a thrilling and complicated profession.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#25 - 2012-06-20 14:20:25 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:

Because mining is just such a thrilling and complicated profession.


It's just like anything else, it's as fun or as boring as you want it to be.

I like fishing, some people hate it.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#26 - 2012-06-20 14:24:00 UTC
I admit it helps me catch up on queue'd shows on Hulu. Blink
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-06-20 14:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Phill Esteen
highonpop wrote:
I can understand the buffer to mining yield. But the Tank and Ore hold is baffling to me.

Why should a retriever, that is half the size (give or take) of a hulk have MORE tank and MORE Ore bay? Its smaller. The covetor and Hulk are the size they are for a reason.


The ore bay of the new Hulk implements an experimental matter-compression system (like those used by cargo containers) proprietary to ORE. Unfortunately due to unclear development goals, poor oversight, excessive outsourcing, and rushed delivery, the new compression system is in fact less than 0% efficient and its bloated, incomprehensible machinery uses up most of the space inside the Hulk's hull, leaving little room for the ore bay itself. However, the system still had to be included for contractual reasons.

I am positively dripping with flavour.

– postum faex est – 

never forget
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-06-20 14:35:06 UTC
If all barges are to be situational wouldn't it make sense that they are all T1?
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-06-20 14:35:43 UTC
I think what thread OP is complaining about the model scale. I agree with him. Ship and overall stuff scaling in EvE is really ****** up. Although I would really like a more reallistic approach I don't mind it that much.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#30 - 2012-06-20 14:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Andoria Thara
Jada Maroo wrote:
If all barges are to be situational wouldn't it make sense that they are all T1?


They'll be just like every other ship.

The T1s will be equivalent to each other, Retriever:CARGO - Covetor:YIELD - Procurer:TANK.

Then the T2s will be a bit better, with the same scheme.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-06-20 14:44:49 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
It's not difficult for me to understand, but for your typical hi sec AFK while doing homework guy it will beBig smile


"Here at the EVE-O forums we're better than you, and we know it."

Dodixie > Hek
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-06-20 15:31:54 UTC
The smaller ships will use ore compression to have more effective room. The high yield ones use all of their space and electronics to mount the 3rd laser, so cannot have the ore compressors, thus an uncompressed hold. Nothing unusual about it.
Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-06-20 15:37:16 UTC
It is simply making you choose between a well tanked lower isk/hour ship or a high isk/hour ship with a weak tank and therefore vulnerable.

It is simple risk Vs reward. Hisec will still be full of untanked barges and exhumers though and the carebears will still complain that their ships are being ganked even though they are being given this by CCP. It wont be enough for the carebears.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#34 - 2012-06-20 15:42:44 UTC
I can answer this with some RL and IU explanationings.

Armor is rather small in size (mere millimeters in many cases today). Shield generators are also small in size.
This is evident by frigs having greater armor and shields than the barges.

Mining equipment takes up a huge amount of space though. The Hulk has a lot of mining equipment. The Retriever has less, and this can have more ore space relative to the size of the ship. Same with the Proc.


Also, the size differences between each stage is not that different.


Put this together with the term "balance" and there is enough to accept the changes as a force for god in the universe, so that miners will have options (and still not take them, but then even CCP can say HTFU), and gankers can have a minor challenge (would be even betetr if folks would mine aligned, but that would be work... such an evil termRoll)
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#35 - 2012-06-20 15:47:40 UTC
in simple to understand car terms then.

Hulk is like a Ferrari, it does one thing and does it really fast but has no trunk and shatters on impact with anything.
Retriever is more like a mid sized sedan with a turbo. Has some trunk, still is pretty fast and can take a few hits.
Procurer is like that Toyota Hilux from Top Gear, slow but can take an unholy beating.

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.
Amke
invidious Squid
#36 - 2012-06-20 15:58:07 UTC
I'm hoping the barge models all get redesigned, they don't match the new ore ships at the moment.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-06-20 16:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Wylde
highonpop wrote:
Just seems to me that this buff is going to take away the need to ever even purchase a Hulk. The high price on them wouldnt be worth the slightly higher yield. Especially since they will be easier to blow up than a retriever and they are like more than 10x the cost.,



Because the prices are going to be exactly the same after the patch, despite new demand.

Jada Maroo wrote:
If all barges are to be situational wouldn't it make sense that they are all T1?



Barges are all tech 1. Exhumers are tech 2. After the patch, all barges and exhumers will be teir 1.

T1 =/= teir 1.

Mining barges and exhumers are not the same thing. A hulk is not a mining barge.
Steveir
Hagukure
#38 - 2012-06-20 16:11:26 UTC
Can we assume that we will now have one cargo space for mining crystals and one cargo space for ore?

If this is the case, I willl be an excited happy miner; if not I may have to stage a protest in Goon space - wherever the hell that is :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2012-06-20 16:23:39 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:


Armor is rather small in size (mere millimeters in many cases today). Shield generators are also small in size.
This is evident by frigs having greater armor and shields than the barges.



The hulk gets the same base EHP as a heavy assault ship.
Louise Antwoord
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#40 - 2012-06-20 17:08:25 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Andoria Thara wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Andoria Thara wrote:
Barges will NO LONGER BE STEPPING STONES.

All barges will be situational.

All barges are getting a yield increase.

Again, All barges will be equivalent, but situational.


Situational awareness? Multiple ships for multiple jobs? Madness!

Only the top tier of the hi sec grinders will comprehend that.


It's not that difficult to understand.

It's like 3 variants of 1 barge, each focusing one of the three main points: Cargo Space, Yield, Tank (EHP)

I wouldn't be surprised if they grouped all T1 barges together into one varient list.


It's not difficult for me to understand, but for your typical hi sec AFK while doing homework guy it will beBig smile


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