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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2012-06-20 15:07:33 UTC
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead.
You mean that year when the NC and the DRF died?
A+++ fact source would use again
Kieron VonDeux
#182 - 2012-06-20 15:07:54 UTC
Remove all jump drives from game and POS Jump Bridges as well.

Major alliances will lose most of their power projection beyond their primary regeion.
Logistic trains will have to use gates again.
Locals will have to use gates as well, instead of their nice safe POS Bridges.
Roamers won't get hotdropped anymore or blocked in due to POS Bridges.

Bring back the NanoPhoon,....

And everyone will be happy again, Right?
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#183 - 2012-06-20 15:08:54 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears.

Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone.


THEY WON'T COME BECAUSE NULL SEC INDUSTRY IS A JOKE, CAN WE MAKE THIS ANY MORE CLEAR.

I know but that is your nullsec problem, we carebears just DON'T CARE. Move your nullbears through hs all you want but stop trying to change things in other PEOPLE'S BACKYARD.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#184 - 2012-06-20 15:09:20 UTC
Mirime Nolwe wrote:

Dont take conclusions when EVE is a game of multiple accounts :) Anyhow, please elaborate instead of making empty arguments. Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead.

0.0 is largely stationary because nobody's going to go to war over tech when it's being nerfed on such a short horizon, and our favorite punching bag - band of brothers - finally got killed enough to give up the ghost, and every non-tech region is worthless

tech is a bad conflict driver because it's so regional and needs to be nerfed back to having an r64 as a choke, which will give much better incentives to fight

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#185 - 2012-06-20 15:11:56 UTC
Ohanka wrote:

This. 1000 times this.

Nullsec Corps and Alliances have severe difficulty getting any meaningful Industry going. Allow Nullsec Alliances to build more than one station in a system, and all those systems to provide the facilities they do now, just better.


Wow! I didn't realize that you could only build one station in a system!
I can understand the facilities may not be as up to par as high sec, at least initially, but I would think it should be possible to build/upgrade them to have them on par, if not better than high sec.

This seems like a big problem. Any reason for this type of limitation?

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2012-06-20 15:12:01 UTC
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead.


Fact: the last year has seen the destruction of the largest nullsec bloc in EVE history (the NC), the invasion of the Clusterfuck Coalition's space by Triv0ke and PL, a huge southern campaign, the eviction of Red Alliance, XIX and their allies from the drone regions, the fall of Branch and Tenal, and countless fights over tech moons. hurr 0.0 is dead

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#187 - 2012-06-20 15:12:17 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
I know but that is your nullsec problem, we carebears just DON'T CARE. Move your nullbears through hs all you want but stop trying to change things in other PEOPLE'S BACKYARD.


/facepalm, and here I thought we were making progress with the whole "even if we bring Null-Bears to Null Sec right now there's no point"
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#188 - 2012-06-20 15:14:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rer Eirikr
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
I can understand the facilities may not be as up to par as high sec, at least initially, but I would think it should be possible to build/upgrade them to have them on par, if not better than high sec.

This seems like a big problem. Any reason for this type of limitation?


I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but if you aren't Lol by god Jim, I think he's got it! Welcome to the points we're trying to make! Blink
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#189 - 2012-06-20 15:19:50 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:

I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but if you aren't Lol by god Jim, and I think he's got it! Welcome to the points we're trying to make! Blink

So not trolling. Trying very hard to understand, but this is the first time I've seen it stated in this fashion. So thank you!
To me, this type of information sharing is so much better than all the trolling and hate that have gone on in previous threads.
It's too bad that one has to wade through all of that to find this nugget of information.

To me, it seems a no brainer that if you can build stations in null sec, then they should have the capability to be upgraded to at least high sec standards, if not better.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#190 - 2012-06-20 15:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Ohanka wrote:

This. 1000 times this.

Nullsec Corps and Alliances have severe difficulty getting any meaningful Industry going. Allow Nullsec Alliances to build more than one station in a system, and all those systems to provide the facilities they do now, just better.


Wow! I didn't realize that you could only build one station in a system!
I can understand the facilities may not be as up to par as high sec, at least initially, but I would think it should be possible to build/upgrade them to have them on par, if not better than high sec.

This seems like a big problem. Any reason for this type of limitation?

One outpost per system is apparently a technical limitation that was never fixed (this is also why 0.0 stations cannot have agents). The upgrades were designed a long time ago and most are hilariously bad. There are a handful of upgrades that allow you to do things better in null than highsec (e.g. a 60% time reduction on ME, for 10 slots of ME research) but at enormous cost. Factories cannot be upgraded to perfect refines (top out at 30%), refineries cannot be upgraded with significant slots (19 max, when I said 17 before I misremembered). Since you are limited in the amount of upgrades you install you cannot do some basic things (like get a refinery to 50% AND max out its factory slots). Caldari stations (research stations) are laughably bad compared to pos labs so they're rarely dropped. You pretty much drop one to help out your newbies researching frigate prints.

Just for good measure, all stations besides Gallente, have hideously low numbers of offices (6 or less). This is so severely problematic we drop gallente outposts all the time, which are utterly useless as anything but a block of 20 offices.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2012-06-20 15:21:54 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
I know but that is your nullsec problem, we carebears just DON'T CARE. Move your nullbears through hs all you want but stop trying to change things in other PEOPLE'S BACKYARD.


Rumor has it that hisec and nullsec are part of the same game.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#192 - 2012-06-20 15:21:56 UTC
oh I forgot to mention you can't mission-run in conquerable nullsec in my list of disadvantages before.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#193 - 2012-06-20 15:25:36 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
I know but that is your nullsec problem, we carebears just DON'T CARE. Move your nullbears through hs all you want but stop trying to change things in other PEOPLE'S BACKYARD.


/facepalm, and here I thought we were making progress with the whole "even if we bring Null-Bears to Null Sec right now there's no point"

First things first - leave hs alone, you don't LIVE there, leave it. Second, so it seems that real problem is not us carebears making easy isk but all those restrictions to your null industry!? Well, nice to know THE REASON why you're so envious and angry Cool
Ohanka
#194 - 2012-06-20 15:26:03 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
oh I forgot to mention you can't mission-run in conquerable nullsec in my list of disadvantages before.


meh, thats not really needed, or wanted.

North Korea is Best Korea
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#195 - 2012-06-20 15:26:41 UTC
Weaselior wrote:

One outpost per system is apparently a technical limitation that was never fixed (this is also why 0.0 stations cannot have agents). The upgrades were designed a long time ago and most are hilariously bad. There are a handful of upgrades that allow you to do things better in null than highsec (e.g. a 60% time reduction on ME, for 10 slots of ME research) but at enormous cost. Factories cannot be upgraded to perfect refines (top out at 30%), refineries cannot be upgraded with significant slots (19 max, when I said 17 before I misremembered). Since you are limited in the amount of upgrades you install you cannot do some basic things (like get a refinery to 50% AND max out its factory slots). Caldari stations (research stations) are laughably bad compared to pos labs so they're rarely dropped. You pretty much drop one to help out your newbies researching frigate prints.

Just for good measure, all stations besides Gallente, have hideously low numbers of offices (6 or less). This is so severely problematic we drop gallente outposts all the time, which are utterly useless as anything but a block of 20 offices.

Well, seems to me, this is the biggest reason for null sec not growing. How does CCP expect any sort of market place developing in this region without the stations and low level resources needed to support it?

Is this related to the work to be done on POSs?

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#196 - 2012-06-20 15:27:02 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
leave hs alone, you don't LIVE there


You have no idea how wrong you are.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#197 - 2012-06-20 15:27:07 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
First things first - leave hs alone, you don't LIVE there, leave it. Second, so it seems that real problem is not us carebears making easy isk but all those restrictions to your null industry!? Well, nice to know THE REASON why you're so envious and angry Cool


Thank you for completely missing the point to the past 3 pages of this discussion. Really, thanks. Evil
Ohanka
#198 - 2012-06-20 15:30:32 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Weaselior wrote:

One outpost per system is apparently a technical limitation that was never fixed (this is also why 0.0 stations cannot have agents). The upgrades were designed a long time ago and most are hilariously bad. There are a handful of upgrades that allow you to do things better in null than highsec (e.g. a 60% time reduction on ME, for 10 slots of ME research) but at enormous cost. Factories cannot be upgraded to perfect refines (top out at 30%), refineries cannot be upgraded with significant slots (19 max, when I said 17 before I misremembered). Since you are limited in the amount of upgrades you install you cannot do some basic things (like get a refinery to 50% AND max out its factory slots). Caldari stations (research stations) are laughably bad compared to pos labs so they're rarely dropped. You pretty much drop one to help out your newbies researching frigate prints.

Just for good measure, all stations besides Gallente, have hideously low numbers of offices (6 or less). This is so severely problematic we drop gallente outposts all the time, which are utterly useless as anything but a block of 20 offices.

Well, seems to me, this is the biggest reason for null sec not growing. How does CCP expect any sort of market place developing in this region without the stations and low level resources needed to support it?

Is this related to the work to be done on POSs?


its easier manufacturing in a POS Than an Outpost.

North Korea is Best Korea
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#199 - 2012-06-20 15:31:06 UTC
Yes high sec has a gazzilion more industry slots to work with, but also has a gazzilion more people using them. Have fun installing a job when the queue is a month long before it even starts your job. Also you have no way to keep them from using the slots, like taking over the station. Don't forget you can always install things at a POS to allow you manufacturing, research and some other stuff iirc. You are not just limited to NPC and player stations.

(insert joke about garbage POS mechanics and stuff)

Yes, the POS is crap and I still would like to see much higher and scaling cost to installing jobs at npc owned stations. I have experienced all aspects of this game with the exception of faction warfare. So I will continue to chime in with suggestions and such when I damn well please. This may upset some of you null residents who are furious that there actually exists players who, after spending a vast majority of their time, decided to leave null for a while and have the audacity to comment about it. You are just going to have to deal with it. Which I am sure will be the continued, "Look at this high sec pubbilordguyzor commenting on null issues... ahahaha!" I give zero fucks about you feel about me.

Another thing is you need to stop being discouraged by crappy mechanics when attempting to fix another mechanic. Who cares if to fix one mechanic, it means fixing twenty other ones to get the job done.

Don't like the current state of POS's? Fine, lets talk about how to fix that.
But then it means we have to deal with crappy moon probing. Fine, lets talk about how to fix that too.
But then it means we have to deal with.....


So what? You can't fix a couple things and proclaim, "The entire game is FIXED!"
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#200 - 2012-06-20 15:36:51 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Have fun installing a job when the queue is a month long before it even starts your job. .

there is always a station within three jumps of jita with either no queue or less than a day

always

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.