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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#161 - 2012-06-20 14:51:09 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues?


Alright, now bear with me for a second, because again I'm not calling for massive nerfs to High Sec here.

High Sec Industry is just incredibly more convenient and large-scale than Null Sec, so there's almost no point to being an Industrialist in Null unless if you're buying crap in Jita, JFing it down, and reselling at higher margins.

That's not what we're looking for here because it doesn't follow that "Farms and Fields" idea I mentioned earlier. Buffing Null Sec Industry with ideas like Ring Mining (mentioned at FanFest), more efficient (or readily available) manufacturing slots and industrial bonuses, and the ability to actually protect miners (I think the proposed eHP changes might just play a factor into this) would go a long way to promoting this idea of a sovereign Null Sec Empire.

Then, we need to change the scary voo-doo image surrounding Null and show how it really can be beneficial for High Sec players and Industrialists alike to give it a shot. However, if the incentives aren't there, they just won't come, because High Sec is just so damn convenient in comparison.
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#162 - 2012-06-20 14:53:30 UTC
Can't find targets? Reset some blues.
No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues.
Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues.

Reset some blues.
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
#163 - 2012-06-20 14:54:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirime Nolwe
0.0 dont have anything special to fight for, its a PVE festival. In my opinion CCP need to make some "resources" (moongoo, whatever) "random", and once they deplete (2/3 months) they should spawn in other systems, that way, the alliances will have more reasons to fight for space.

In the current state i dont see why we should lose time with 0.0 warfare.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#164 - 2012-06-20 14:54:36 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Can't find targets? Reset some blues.
No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues.
Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues.

Reset some blues.


Its fun in the short term but it really doesn't solve the main issue at hand. Its a vacation at best and a distraction from the real problems at worst.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2012-06-20 14:55:31 UTC
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
0.0 dont have anything special to fight for, its a PVE festival. In my opinion CCP need to make some "resources" (moongoo, whatever) "random", and once they deplete (2/3 months) they should spawn in other systems, that way, the alliances will have more reasons to fight for space.

In the current state i dont see why we should lose time with 0.0 warfare.

Have you ever scanned a whole region for moons? Even once?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#166 - 2012-06-20 14:56:00 UTC
Even if you were completely, 100% safe in 0.0 you still wouldn't produce there. Industry in 0.0 just isn't really viable because it's inferior in every way to doing it in highsec. The only real industry that exists is supercap building (only possible in sov 0.0) and moon reactions (which have a direct subsidy in the form of sov fuel bonuses). Everything else is just newbies screwing around doing some low-level industry.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2012-06-20 14:56:20 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears.

Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#168 - 2012-06-20 14:56:39 UTC
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
0.0 dont have anything special to fight for, its a PVE festival. In my opinion CCP need to make some "resources" (moongoo, whatever) "random", and once they deplete (2/3 months) they should spawn in other systems, that way, the alliances will have more reasons to fight for space.

In the current state i dont see why we should lose time with 0.0 warfare.

please don't weigh in on 0.0 incentives for fighting when you live in empire

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#169 - 2012-06-20 14:57:05 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears.

Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone.


THEY WON'T COME BECAUSE NULL SEC INDUSTRY IS A JOKE, CAN WE MAKE THIS ANY MORE CLEAR.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2012-06-20 14:57:28 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Can't find targets? Reset some blues.
No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues.
Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues.

Reset some blues.


take it from marlona sky people, he has experience in successful 0.0 alliances like Atlas

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#171 - 2012-06-20 14:58:24 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears.

Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone.

Highseccers will always deserve a good flogging and it will always be delightful to give it to them.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#172 - 2012-06-20 14:58:26 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:

Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues?

they've been mentioned ad nauseum but here goes:

lack of factory slots
lack of refinery/factories
lack of a source of lowends
lack of viable compression
lack of increased profitability for building in nullsec to counteract the disadvantages of it
lack of any ability to do serious t2 manufacturing since moongoo is regional and you must go to jita to get everything you need ergo just do it next to jita

etc etc etc

Excellent! These are ideas I can support!
I also figured they've been mentioned before, I'm just not really sure why we continue to have these threads.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2012-06-20 14:58:46 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
Can't find targets? Reset some blues.
No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues.
Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues.

Reset some blues.


take it from marlona sky people, he has experience in successful 0.0 alliances like Atlas

And NCdot.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2012-06-20 14:59:28 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears.

Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone.

Make us.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ohanka
#175 - 2012-06-20 15:00:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ohanka
Weaselior wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:

Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues?

they've been mentioned ad nauseum but here goes:

lack of factory slots
lack of refinery/factories
lack of a source of lowends
lack of viable compression
lack of increased profitability for building in nullsec to counteract the disadvantages of it
lack of any ability to do serious t2 manufacturing since moongoo is regional and you must go to jita to get everything you need ergo just do it next to jita

etc etc etc


This. 1000 times this.

Nullsec Corps and Alliances have severe difficulty getting any meaningful Industry going. Allow Nullsec Alliances to build more than one station in a system, and all those systems to provide the facilities they do now, just better.

North Korea is Best Korea
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#176 - 2012-06-20 15:00:32 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:

Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues?

they've been mentioned ad nauseum but here goes:

lack of factory slots
lack of refinery/factories
lack of a source of lowends
lack of viable compression
lack of increased profitability for building in nullsec to counteract the disadvantages of it
lack of any ability to do serious t2 manufacturing since moongoo is regional and you must go to jita to get everything you need ergo just do it next to jita

etc etc etc

Excellent! These are ideas I can support!
I also figured they've been mentioned before, I'm just not really sure why we continue to have these threads.


Because we all secretly just wanna fly our Hulks in Null Sec bro Sad
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#177 - 2012-06-20 15:00:53 UTC
Marconus Orion wrote:
Can't find targets? Reset some blues.
No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues.
Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues.

Reset some blues.

We have NC. and IRC, no problems :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
#178 - 2012-06-20 15:03:50 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
0.0 dont have anything special to fight for, its a PVE festival. In my opinion CCP need to make some "resources" (moongoo, whatever) "random", and once they deplete (2/3 months) they should spawn in other systems, that way, the alliances will have more reasons to fight for space.

In the current state i dont see why we should lose time with 0.0 warfare.

please don't weigh in on 0.0 incentives for fighting when you live in empire


Dont take conclusions when EVE is a game of multiple accounts :) Anyhow, please elaborate instead of making empty arguments. Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#179 - 2012-06-20 15:04:07 UTC
I mean put it this way I have seriously, seriously considered spending 15 billion isk getting a 10 slot factory/40% refinery station. In addition to the 30b that outpost cost someone, that's 45b to have a single system have 1/50th the slots of Perimiter, at ~45 jumps farther away from Jita. And that would be the absolute pinnacle of nullsec industry, unless i spent an additional 15b or so to get it to a 17 slot factory/40% refinery.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#180 - 2012-06-20 15:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rer Eirikr
^ This, please try to understand where we're coming from now when we say Null Sec Industry is laughably bad.


Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Dont take conclusions when EVE is a game of multiple accounts :) Anyhow, please elaborate instead of making empty arguments. Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead.


Stagnant =/= Dead. Null Sec Empires have very little reason to invade one another's areas of space. Take OTEC for example, even if it is just a semi-tongue in cheek phrase, the reality is that most Tech-based empires just leave one another alone, because they're already making ISK hand over fist. (NOTE: This is separate from my earlier posts about farms and fields, Moons are not a good way of promoting small scale PvP and Null Sec Industry because they are hard to fight over without massive numbers and do not benefit Industrialists in any way)