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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#141 - 2012-06-20 14:24:46 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
So, what you are saying, is that there is no way to make ISK in null sec?

Oh, no, there is. It's just a lot less effort/risk to do it in hisec.

I suppose so. Everyone can enjoy using a neutral alt in a special altcorp and receive free concord protection.

L4s?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#142 - 2012-06-20 14:25:37 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
If players are abandoning null and/or chose to remain in hisec, then develop hisec and backburn nullsec.


the problem isn't that nullsec is being 'abandoned' by anybody, it's that the broken risk/reward balance in the game has caused people to leave their PvP mains in nullsec and make isk in hisec with alts, despite their alliances holding a ton of upgraded space

So, what you are saying, is that there is no way to make ISK in null sec?

Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort.
Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.


I was ratting in nullsec and doing a sanctum just this morning.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#143 - 2012-06-20 14:27:03 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort.
Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.

So the real reason is the that hard core null sec PvPers can't break their addiction to high sec. Makes sense for their calls to nerf it.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2012-06-20 14:27:48 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort.
Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.


I was ratting in nullsec and doing a sanctum just this morning.

maybe they just suck at ganking and are shamelessly begging CCP to help, WHO CAN SAY?!?!?!
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#145 - 2012-06-20 14:29:04 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
I was ratting in nullsec and doing a sanctum just this morning.


No one is making the argument that such things don't happen, when I'm really bored I belt rat in a Cynabal (sidenote: please come at me, I could use a fun 1v1 Cool). However, it doesn't happen on the scale that it should be happening. 0.0 pilots shouldn't have alts dedicated to running L4s/Mining/Incursions in HighSec. If they want to that's their prerogative, but as of right now there's little incentive to be an industrialist or ratter in 0.0 in comparison to the easy cash you can get, almost risk free, in HighSec.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#146 - 2012-06-20 14:29:44 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort.
Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.

So the real reason is the that hard core null sec PvPers can't break their addiction to high sec. Makes sense for their calls to nerf it.
EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#147 - 2012-06-20 14:30:19 UTC
Man, if I could find a way to get out to null somewhere in some backwater system and not have to socialize with people I'd love blasting rats in the face while basking in the beauty of a desolate, empty space....set the scene by pointing my ship towards the sun.

I wonder if I could somehow get a cloaked ratting ship and some cans out somewhere and live of of that? Bleh, how would I fit my stuff?

So close...
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#148 - 2012-06-20 14:31:05 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth


Or we could just propose JF nerfs again and all become hermits with our own little markets. Pirate
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2012-06-20 14:32:20 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Man, if I could find a way to get out to null somewhere in some backwater system and not have to socialize with people I'd love blasting rats in the face while basking in the beauty of a desolate, empty space....set the scene by pointing my ship towards the sun.

I wonder if I could somehow get a cloaked ratting ship and some cans out somewhere and live of of that? Bleh, how would I fit my stuff?


live out of a cloaked carrier

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#150 - 2012-06-20 14:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Man, if I could find a way to get out to null somewhere in some backwater system and not have to socialize with people I'd love blasting rats in the face while basking in the beauty of a desolate, empty space....set the scene by pointing my ship towards the sun.

I wonder if I could somehow get a cloaked ratting ship and some cans out somewhere and live of of that? Bleh, how would I fit my stuff?


Covops interidiction nullified tengu + Outer ring.

Go crazy mate.

EDIT: Or pay 150m isk for Black Frog to jump your stuff to an NPC nullsec station of your choice direct from Jita.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#151 - 2012-06-20 14:33:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Oisin Sandovar
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth

Then Eve wouldn't be a sandbox. There is a choice to forgo any part of the sandbox if you so choose, but it's not chosen. So then people decide that it should be removed entirely because they can't garner the will to not do something. LOL!

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2012-06-20 14:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth

Then Eve wouldn't be a sandbox. There is a choice to forgo any part of the sandbox if you so choose, but it's not chosen. So then people decide that it should be removed entirely because they can't garner the will to not do something. LOL!
lol @ this "Sandbox means 'PVP and wardecs are optional" ' idea

hey Oisin show me where the checkbox is that excludes me from being suicide ganked. because if it isn't there that means EVE isn't and was never a sandbox in the first place, right?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#153 - 2012-06-20 14:37:17 UTC
Killing jump logistics includes nerfin carriers.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2012-06-20 14:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
masternerdguy wrote:
Killing jump logistics includes nerfin carriers.


it also includes revamping 0.0 industry beyond all hell because holy **** nobody is going to homesource the minerals for, say, an outpost or a titan in their own space, much less build anything in 0.0 with the horrible situation we have w/r/t manufacturing slots

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2012-06-20 14:41:00 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth

Then Eve wouldn't be a sandbox. There is a choice to forgo any part of the sandbox if you so choose, but it's not chosen. So then people decide that it should be removed entirely because they can't garner the will to not do something. LOL!

You do realize that by "hisec manufacturing supremacy needs to be eliminated", he didn't mean "kill all hisec manufacturing", but "make hisec manufacturing less awesome than nullsec".

I'll say again, deklein has less manufacturing capabilities than a lot of solar systems in hisec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2012-06-20 14:42:05 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort.
Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.

So the real reason is the that hard core null sec PvPers can't break their addiction to high sec. Makes sense for their calls to nerf it.

LOL, null bears finally admited they're also hs bears. Awesome.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#157 - 2012-06-20 14:42:11 UTC
Let's try this again.

Most NullSec pilots don't want to nerf High Sec into oblivion. What we want are Industrialists/Miners/Ratters/etc. to be incentivized, (either through carrot, stick, or a combination of both) to come live and stay in Null Sec.

I bolded the important part there. Null Sec Empires should be NULL-SEC based Empires, with large amounts of industry, ISK generation, group activities, etc. taking place. The idea behind this is that it promotes the long talked about "farms and fields" idea, giving small and large groups a like new targets to seek out and attempt to destroy. Thus we get more pew pew!

Industrialists get more options/profit-margins in Null Sec. Win
Miners get high end ores that will likely be bought straight by their Alliance or Industrialists in the area. Win
PvP Happens
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#158 - 2012-06-20 14:44:22 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
Let's try this again.

Most NullSec pilots don't want to nerf High Sec into oblivion. What we want are Industrialists/Miners/Ratters/etc. to be incentivized, (either through carrot, stick, or a combination of both) to come live and stay in Null Sec.

I bolded the important part there. Null Sec Empires should be NULL-SEC based Empires, with large amounts of industry, ISK generation, group activities, etc. taking place. The idea behind this is that it promotes the long talked about "farms and fields" idea, giving small and large groups a like new targets to seek out and attempt to destroy. Thus we get more pew pew!

Industrialists get more options/profit-margins in Null Sec. Win
Miners get high end ores that will likely be bought straight by their Alliance or Industrialists in the area. Win
PvP Happens

Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues?

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2012-06-20 14:45:04 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort.
Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.

So the real reason is the that hard core null sec PvPers can't break their addiction to high sec. Makes sense for their calls to nerf it.

LOL, null bears finally admited they're also hs bears. Awesome.

Uh. "Finally" implies we've said we're anything but.

I mean, there's probably tons of "hurr we're elite PVPers durr" idiots abound, but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears. You just can't be so infested with bears you can't defend yourself.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#160 - 2012-06-20 14:47:58 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:

Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues?

they've been mentioned ad nauseum but here goes:

lack of factory slots
lack of refinery/factories
lack of a source of lowends
lack of viable compression
lack of increased profitability for building in nullsec to counteract the disadvantages of it
lack of any ability to do serious t2 manufacturing since moongoo is regional and you must go to jita to get everything you need ergo just do it next to jita

etc etc etc

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.