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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2012-06-20 13:51:57 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
See, at the end of the day it all comes down to ISK/hr with you lot.

Hey, if you want to babysit a refinery POS all day every day just to be able to cope with a single hulk's output, and pay 100m/month to do so and still get less in return compared to what you'd get by going to a refinery station, selecting multiple types of ore and modules and ships and what have you, right click and press "refine", then by all means, be my guest. I'm pretty sure we'll find some system you can setup a POS in and refine away to your heart's content.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Greyscale Dash
Doomheim
#122 - 2012-06-20 13:55:17 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
See, at the end of the day it all comes down to ISK/hr with you lot.

Hey, if you want to babysit a refinery POS all day every day just to be able to cope with a single hulk's output, and pay 100m/month to do so and still get less in return compared to what you'd get by going to a refinery station, selecting multiple types of ore and modules and ships and what have you, right click and press "refine", then by all means, be my guest. I'm pretty sure we'll find some system you can setup a POS in and refine away to your heart's content.


No. More general.

"Come to lo sec!" -- No, I can make more isk in hi sec.
"Come to nullsec" -- No, I can make more isk in hi sec.*
"Come to WH space" -- No, I can make more isk in hi sec.**

Every time someone suggests a challenge, you answer about isk/hr.

*which is incorrect, btw
**Once again, this is only correct if you insist on being a solo player,
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2012-06-20 13:57:58 UTC
Greyscale Dash wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
See, at the end of the day it all comes down to ISK/hr with you lot.

Hey, if you want to babysit a refinery POS all day every day just to be able to cope with a single hulk's output, and pay 100m/month to do so and still get less in return compared to what you'd get by going to a refinery station, selecting multiple types of ore and modules and ships and what have you, right click and press "refine", then by all means, be my guest. I'm pretty sure we'll find some system you can setup a POS in and refine away to your heart's content.


No. More general.

"Come to lo sec!" -- No, I can make more isk in hi sec.
"Come to nullsec" -- No, I can make more isk in hi sec.*
"Come to WH space" -- No, I can make more isk in hi sec.**

Every time someone suggests a challenge, you answer about isk/hr.

*which is incorrect, btw
**Once again, this is only correct if you insist on being a solo player,

That's taking the danger equation out of the mix, since what you should be saying is "can make more isk/hour in relation to danger or effort, in hisec".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Greyscale Dash
Doomheim
#124 - 2012-06-20 13:59:39 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Greyscale Dash wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
See, at the end of the day it all comes down to ISK/hr with you lot.

Hey, if you want to babysit a refinery POS all day every day just to be able to cope with a single hulk's output, and pay 100m/month to do so and still get less in return compared to what you'd get by going to a refinery station, selecting multiple types of ore and modules and ships and what have you, right click and press "refine", then by all means, be my guest. I'm pretty sure we'll find some system you can setup a POS in and refine away to your heart's content.


No. More general.

"Come to lo sec!" -- No, I can make more isk in hi sec.
"Come to nullsec" -- No, I can make more isk in hi sec.*
"Come to WH space" -- No, I can make more isk in hi sec.**

Every time someone suggests a challenge, you answer about isk/hr.

*which is incorrect, btw
**Once again, this is only correct if you insist on being a solo player,

That's taking the danger equation out of the mix, since what you should be saying is "can make more isk/hour in relation to danger or effort, in hisec".


And once again, you reduce the entire argument to isk/hr.

Your dream MMO is making huge sums of cash for no effort and no risk.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#125 - 2012-06-20 14:00:40 UTC
Adelphie wrote:
(...)

So my question to the masses is this: What features could be introduced to reverse the trend, and increase the number of people wanting to come to null? (...)


i have a better suggestion instead.

If players are abandoning null and/or chose to remain in hisec, then develop hisec and backburn nullsec.

Nullsec is bleeding from self-inflicted wounds, and it would be foolish to make everyone else pay the price for nullsec's succesful failure. Roll
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2012-06-20 14:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Malphilos wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
So your answer is to make space unentrenchable, meaning all of it becomes deserted and unused.


You're suggesting people will only hang out where they're safe?

That would explain the current circle jerk.

Yeah people take precautions in null before they risk valuable assets. How evil of them. This isn't highsec we're talking about where dudes don't even bother to tank their mining ships then complain when they're killed by a catalyst.

0.0 players have the option of making their space safe for use through active defense and vigilance (aka teamwork), as well as making their rivals' space unsafe. It is this contest of wills between null inhabitants that defines the experience.

The problem on an industrial end is that there are no substantial rewards for going to all this effort of helping to defend and secure your space other then access to arkonor, and from a manufacturer's standpoint there is no way to make manufacuring/building in sheer quantity or convenience in highsec, so 0.0 remains a resource exporter that shuns casual indy players instead of one that includes them.
Singoth
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2012-06-20 14:02:23 UTC
Quote:
So my question to the masses is this: What features could be introduced to reverse the trend, and increase the number of people wanting to come to null?

I thought of something, but decided to give it its own thread, which can be found hereSmile

Less yappin', more zappin'!
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2012-06-20 14:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
If players are abandoning null and/or chose to remain in hisec, then develop hisec and backburn nullsec.


the problem isn't that nullsec is being 'abandoned' by anybody, it's that the broken risk/reward balance in the game has caused people to leave their PvP mains in nullsec and make isk in hisec with alts, despite their alliances holding a ton of upgraded space

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2012-06-20 14:10:52 UTC
Greyscale Dash wrote:
And once again, you reduce the entire argument to isk/hr.

Your dream MMO is making huge sums of cash for no effort and no risk.

Nice strawman, since that's not what I'm saying.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#130 - 2012-06-20 14:12:31 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Greyscale Dash wrote:
And once again, you reduce the entire argument to isk/hr.

Your dream MMO is making huge sums of cash for no effort and no risk.

Nice strawman, since that's not what I'm saying.


I disagree.

You have yet to prove to the forum that you aren't only motivated by isk/hr.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#131 - 2012-06-20 14:14:06 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Greyscale Dash wrote:
And once again, you reduce the entire argument to isk/hr.

Your dream MMO is making huge sums of cash for no effort and no risk.

Nice strawman, since that's not what I'm saying.


I disagree.

You have yet to prove to the forum that you aren't only motivated by isk/hr.


..

We have this thing called PvP, maybe you've heard of it.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#132 - 2012-06-20 14:15:10 UTC
Rer Eirikr wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Greyscale Dash wrote:
And once again, you reduce the entire argument to isk/hr.

Your dream MMO is making huge sums of cash for no effort and no risk.

Nice strawman, since that's not what I'm saying.


I disagree.

You have yet to prove to the forum that you aren't only motivated by isk/hr.


..

We have this thing called PvP, maybe you've heard of it.


Yes, my killboard is rather plump.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-06-20 14:16:22 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Greyscale Dash wrote:
And once again, you reduce the entire argument to isk/hr.

Your dream MMO is making huge sums of cash for no effort and no risk.

Nice strawman, since that's not what I'm saying.


I disagree.

You have yet to prove to the forum that you aren't only motivated by isk/hr.

Yes, I join 1000+ fleetfights because I'm "only motivated by isk/hr".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2012-06-20 14:18:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
ban npc corps
nerf highsec station refining rate
overhaul 0.0 industry in general
add capital strip miner for rorquals that only works on low end ore

LOL


You know what will happen right?

Nullsec will become highsec, with a bunch of people paying concord.

Jita would die, but then a system in each null area would be picked to play the same role. Major sov holders will essentially be forced to be space police for ever, with nothing else to do.

Hence, they leave. It snowballs.

Game dies.

lmfao look up this alliance called "Curatores Veritatis Alliance".
They've been 0.0 "space police" for 9 years. And they'll let anyone in, not just blues. They're fine. Providence is fine for small-scale PVP between police and pirates. Or they could ignore the new incentives and continue to not let anyone in. Either way not 'game killing' (lol).

Most alliances however don't accept large swaths of casual miners and small-scale industrialists because there's no profit in it over just using jump freighters and making them undercut each other endlessly. I propose there should be.

Quote:
You stop that, the economy dies, or becomes the barter/wage slavery of null, were the measure of success is a plex a month, and you get all your stuff giving to you by the indies of your alliance for zero isk.
So because we let shipbuilders in we immediately go communist?
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#135 - 2012-06-20 14:19:09 UTC
How to make null sec vibrant again? Paint it bright yellow.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#136 - 2012-06-20 14:19:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Oisin Sandovar
Richard Desturned wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
If players are abandoning null and/or chose to remain in hisec, then develop hisec and backburn nullsec.


the problem isn't that nullsec is being 'abandoned' by anybody, it's that the broken risk/reward balance in the game has caused people to leave their PvP mains in nullsec and make isk in hisec with alts, despite their alliances holding a ton of upgraded space

So, what you are saying, is that there is no way to make ISK in null sec?
You alliance holds upgraded space, and members of the alliance can't make ISK in null sec?
What's the point then?

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#137 - 2012-06-20 14:20:56 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
If players are abandoning null and/or chose to remain in hisec, then develop hisec and backburn nullsec.

the problem isn't that nullsec is being 'abandoned' by anybody, it's that the broken risk/reward balance in the game has caused people to leave their PvP mains in nullsec and make isk in hisec with alts, despite their alliances holding a ton of upgraded space

I love our upgraded space <3 <3

Pity sometimes the reds, oranges and greys will run amok camping our gates though.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#138 - 2012-06-20 14:20:57 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
So, what you are saying, is that there is no way to make ISK in null sec?


Its stupid easy to do in HighSec with comparatively little effort so why wouldn't you, is what he's saying.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2012-06-20 14:21:16 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
If players are abandoning null and/or chose to remain in hisec, then develop hisec and backburn nullsec.


the problem isn't that nullsec is being 'abandoned' by anybody, it's that the broken risk/reward balance in the game has caused people to leave their PvP mains in nullsec and make isk in hisec with alts, despite their alliances holding a ton of upgraded space

So, what you are saying, is that there is no way to make ISK in null sec?

Oh, no, there is. It's just a lot less effort/risk to do it in hisec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2012-06-20 14:23:53 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
If players are abandoning null and/or chose to remain in hisec, then develop hisec and backburn nullsec.


the problem isn't that nullsec is being 'abandoned' by anybody, it's that the broken risk/reward balance in the game has caused people to leave their PvP mains in nullsec and make isk in hisec with alts, despite their alliances holding a ton of upgraded space

So, what you are saying, is that there is no way to make ISK in null sec?

Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort.
Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.