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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Bjron
501st Amarr
#101 - 2012-06-20 13:18:40 UTC
Just some things I want to touch base on here.
(inb4 care bear, looser, highsec baby).


I have been to low, lived there a week or two at a time, been to NPC and "open" 0.0 too. Tried RvB and FW at one point or another in my life.
Its not like I haven't tried my hand at PvP, its just that Eve's PvP is not my bag of tea. I prefer mission running or mining depending on how much time I have to play that day (normally less than 2-3 hours M-F). Its something I can jump into right after I get off work, feel like I got something done and I don't have to worry about getting told what to do, or where to do it.

I am not asking for what I do to be better, or safer. I am not asking that low/null get nurfed.

Part of it, I don't think POS are not too efficient for anything other than research and a place to dock and refit or change ships.
Maybe if POS refinery and production was as good as NPC or better low/null might see a larger gain.


The thing is, I don't know what would fix it, because I haven't spent enough time there to know. All I can do is guess from my limited information on the area.

The one thing I can say for sure, forcing people to leave highsec would be far worse for the game than just leaving them alone. I feel that many people would just outright quit. I may or may not try to learn my way around low better.

I think making POS as good, or better than NPC stations when it comes to refining and producing would go a long way. I don't think removing level 4's from highsec would change anything, Level 5's sure didn't. Incursions are already something that is (mostly) ignored now.

I don't think it would be right to have 0.0 space enforced by NPC.s either. I don't feel that adding more systems to high, low or null would help. As it is now many areas are empty save NPC's. Amarr space seems to be vastly less populated compared to other places as it is. Changing insurance to a 100% coverage is (to me) against what Eve is. That would mean no loss, when losses have no meaning then you have both sides just turning into a meat grinder.

Nurfing highsec mining is a joke, it already pays pennies compared to a well prepared mission runner, plexes or WH space.

If it was up to me, the first things I would focus on.
1) fix or redo POS, to make them equal to or better than NPS stations, but make them only useable in .5 or lower.
.5 is a small only .4 medium and large.

2) Try to get more people playing Eve, we need something here to entice more players. Maybe something like Iracing does. They offer 3 months free for any new account and sometimes they drop a years sub to as low as $50-60 and offer rewards for continuous membership.
Maybe offer 2-3 months free for any new account for the price of 1 month. ($20 gets you 3 months), make some new vidoes for ads on webpages and more TV/magazine ads if money allowed.
offer a "unlimited" trial but have the same restrictions as a trial account and a SP cap.

Thats all I got.
It might be stupid, or compel
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-06-20 13:20:05 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
nuke hisec incursions, make it exclusive to lowsec

done, more people leave hisec, even if it's just daytrips to lowsec

Which still leaves null sec with nothing, and still does not drive people anywhere.Roll
Stop nerfing things and look at ways to boost null sec to make it an attractive place to go.

Capital mining ships which are 10x as effective as hulks at sucking down roids
Stations with 100% refineries and 100-200 manufacturing, research, copying and invention slots each
Multiple stations possible per system.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#103 - 2012-06-20 13:21:14 UTC
Want to make Null vibrant? Make a tutorial on corp/alliance politics that you have to take when you start. Because obviously that is what it takes to get into null. One does not simply "Go to nullsec".

The highest barrier to new nullsec corps and alliances is politics. So train them for that and more people will go.
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-06-20 13:23:07 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
Well, I've read pretty much every post in this thread and think there's a lot of point-missing.

If you took all the alts out of hisec, you'd be left mostly with casual gamers. They're not motivated primarily by ISK/hr, although that's a part of it. Casual gamers generally don't want a hyper-competitive environment, they want a social activity, sometimes to the extent that their profession is a background while they chat with corpmates. Dicking around with the efficiency of refineries or the location of L4s is not going to change much because it' completely misunderstands people's motivations.

Again, what stops a large number of people from getting into null is that they perceive it as being full of assholes. Now, I'm sure I'm going to get a load of the usual "this isn't hellokittyonline"-type replies, but if you want more people in null, the solution really isn't rocket science.


Because nullsec has no social interaction.


I didn't say that. Have another read.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#105 - 2012-06-20 13:24:56 UTC
Remove local
Remove local
Remove local

anyone who doesn't support this is bad at eve
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#106 - 2012-06-20 13:25:00 UTC
Frederick Sanger wrote:
Null sec is pretty rad. You poors should give it a try.


It's funny, currently highsec ores are passing Crokite on the isk/m3 scale. I think before long, null miners will be moving to highsec where the real money is.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2012-06-20 13:26:53 UTC
Metal Icarus wrote:
Want to make Null vibrant? Make a tutorial on corp/alliance politics that you have to take when you start. Because obviously that is what it takes to get into null. One does not simply "Go to nullsec".

The highest barrier to new nullsec corps and alliances is politics. So train them for that and more people will go.


the only members of a nullsec alliance who are involved in 0.0 politics are diplomats, FCs and leadership

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2012-06-20 13:27:29 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
Well, I've read pretty much every post in this thread and think there's a lot of point-missing.

If you took all the alts out of hisec, you'd be left mostly with casual gamers. They're not motivated primarily by ISK/hr, although that's a part of it. Casual gamers generally don't want a hyper-competitive environment, they want a social activity, sometimes to the extent that their profession is a background while they chat with corpmates. Dicking around with the efficiency of refineries or the location of L4s is not going to change much because it' completely misunderstands people's motivations.

Again, what stops a large number of people from getting into null is that they perceive it as being full of assholes. Now, I'm sure I'm going to get a load of the usual "this isn't hellokittyonline"-type replies, but if you want more people in null, the solution really isn't rocket science.


Because nullsec has no social interaction.


I didn't say that. Have another read.

You're making partially faulty assumptions, however. Some people would love to go to null, if the rewards were worth the added work, they decide it isn't. Others are delicate flowers who get a heartattack if you mention the 7 words you can't say on TV: ****, ****, ****, ****, **********, ************, and ****.

Surprisingly, I don't really care about the delicate flowers.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#109 - 2012-06-20 13:27:43 UTC
Andoria Thara wrote:
Frederick Sanger wrote:
Null sec is pretty rad. You poors should give it a try.


It's funny, currently highsec ores are passing Crokite on the isk/m3 scale. I think before long, null miners will be moving to highsec where the real money is.


Mining for isk.

Lol.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-06-20 13:29:47 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
Want to make Null vibrant? Make a tutorial on corp/alliance politics that you have to take when you start. Because obviously that is what it takes to get into null. One does not simply "Go to nullsec".

The highest barrier to new nullsec corps and alliances is politics. So train them for that and more people will go.


the only members of a nullsec alliance who are involved in 0.0 politics are diplomats, FCs and leadership

And mandozers, but I don't think creating diplomatic incidents are really something any tutorial can prepare you for.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#111 - 2012-06-20 13:31:00 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
Want to make Null vibrant? Make a tutorial on corp/alliance politics that you have to take when you start. Because obviously that is what it takes to get into null. One does not simply "Go to nullsec".

The highest barrier to new nullsec corps and alliances is politics. So train them for that and more people will go.


the only members of a nullsec alliance who are involved in 0.0 politics are diplomats, FCs and leadership

that's not really true in other alliances that openly recruit: you have to have some social skills to get in and such

politics might not be the right word but it's not crazy wrong, its just sort of imprecise

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2012-06-20 13:32:10 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Metal Icarus wrote:
Want to make Null vibrant? Make a tutorial on corp/alliance politics that you have to take when you start. Because obviously that is what it takes to get into null. One does not simply "Go to nullsec".

The highest barrier to new nullsec corps and alliances is politics. So train them for that and more people will go.


the only members of a nullsec alliance who are involved in 0.0 politics are diplomats, FCs and leadership

And mandozers, but I don't think creating diplomatic incidents are really something any tutorial can prepare you for.


mandozer was an FC :eng101:

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2012-06-20 13:32:24 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
Well, I've read pretty much every post in this thread and think there's a lot of point-missing.

If you took all the alts out of hisec, you'd be left mostly with casual gamers. They're not motivated primarily by ISK/hr, although that's a part of it. Casual gamers generally don't want a hyper-competitive environment, they want a social activity, sometimes to the extent that their profession is a background while they chat with corpmates. Dicking around with the efficiency of refineries or the location of L4s is not going to change much because it' completely misunderstands people's motivations.

Again, what stops a large number of people from getting into null is that they perceive it as being full of assholes. Now, I'm sure I'm going to get a load of the usual "this isn't hellokittyonline"-type replies, but if you want more people in null, the solution really isn't rocket science.


Because nullsec has no social interaction.


I didn't say that. Have another read.

You're making partially faulty assumptions, however. Some people would love to go to null, if the rewards were worth the added work, they decide it isn't. Others are delicate flowers who get a heartattack if you mention the 7 words you can't say on TV: ****, ****, ****, ****, **********, ************, and ****.

Surprisingly, I don't really care about the delicate flowers.


Reward isn't just about ISK/hr. If that were the only reward, you could make a game where people just logged in, did nothing, and got paid in ISK. That'd be ****** up, right?

Anyway, off to work now, am sure I'll argue more later ;P
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2012-06-20 13:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Weaselior wrote:
that's not really true in other alliances that openly recruit: you have to have some social skills to get in and such


clearly the social skills needed to get in have paid off in terms of their stellar diplomatic skill

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#115 - 2012-06-20 13:38:06 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
You poors should provide some real reasons as to why someone should move to null, other than by your say so.


because you've spent two years in the starting area, for instance

And you fail comprehension. You've provided no reason.Blink

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#116 - 2012-06-20 13:40:38 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Well, I guess that pretty much covers it all with how awesome POS refineries are. :P

How about advanced refinery skills to improve POS refineries?

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2012-06-20 13:41:28 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
And you fail comprehension. You've provided no reason.Blink


0.0 is the actual game

highsec is basically like staying in riverwood and chopping wood for Hod

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2012-06-20 13:43:52 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Well, I guess that pretty much covers it all with how awesome POS refineries are. :P

How about advanced refinery skills to improve POS refineries?

Unless they provide more than 100% return, and do it quicker than instantly, they can't compete with station refineries. Station refineries don't cost isk to run, POSes do.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#119 - 2012-06-20 13:45:09 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Well, I guess that pretty much covers it all with how awesome POS refineries are. :P

How about advanced refinery skills to improve POS refineries?

Unless they provide more than 100% return, and do it quicker than instantly, they can't compete with station refineries. Station refineries don't cost isk to run, POSes do.


See, at the end of the day it all comes down to ISK/hr with you lot.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Rer Eirikr
The Scope
#120 - 2012-06-20 13:49:25 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
Adelphie wrote:

So my question to the masses is this: What features could be introduced to reverse the trend, and increase the number of people wanting to come to null?


Honest answer - I percieve null to be full of assholes. The sheer level of assholery on Eve, mainly from the direction of null, puts me off. I don't get the impression that it's a community I want to really be a part of. I know that not everyone who calls null home is an *******, and I don't doubt that there are even null corps with mostly decent people, but the general impression I get from what I see on the forums and from the alts in my (starter) corp is too negative for me to bother with.


Its a shame people feel this way about Null, because its just not the reality. We're no different from pretty much any other section of the game. We just love being able to do what we want, when we want, how we want. Blink