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Noob question on Aggression

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Cat Harkness
Twilight Labs
The Serenity Initiative
#1 - 2012-06-19 02:14:47 UTC
I have a noob question about aggression timers. Sometimes when I enter a asteroid belt to mine I come across ships from the Serpentis Corporation. Now these are red to me, and will soon approach and start firing on me. This causes the Aggression countdown to start.

I guess I don't really understand what the ramifications of this will be for me. And why do I get the timer since I did not start the fight?

The last thing I want to happen is to have CONCORD attacking me.

Cat Harkness

CEO

Twilight Labs
Litair
Nleesh
#2 - 2012-06-19 02:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Litair
I imagine you're talking about npc pirates in this case.. And as for that, the aggression timer isn't really anything to worry about. Concord isn't going to blow you up for killing npc pirates :p
It's only something to think of concerning PvP really, when certain corporations would be allowed to attack you in high-sec for a while without concord coming to the rescue, if you had attacked some of their members.

But yes bottom line, if it's npcs in an asteroid belt, don't mind it, doesn't do anything.
Cat Harkness
Twilight Labs
The Serenity Initiative
#3 - 2012-06-19 02:47:04 UTC
Thanks for the info.

Cat Harkness

CEO

Twilight Labs
Sugar Kyle
Middle Ground
#4 - 2012-06-19 10:30:26 UTC
This can be a very confusing mechanic at first. Hover your mouse over the agression notification and it will show you who you are aggressed to and for how long.

This is useful for theft, PvP and gate gun and station gun aggression.

It is silly that you get one for NPC attacking you, but you do. They have issues is all, no worries.

Member of CSM9 and CSM10.
Kata Amentis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-06-19 12:05:21 UTC
getting an aggression counter from npc attacking you is an old "feature"... the Devs are looking to overhaul the aggression side of things fairly soon, so this will hopefully be addressed then. Keep an eye out for any dev blog relating to "crimewatch" (thats the aggression and flagging system).

Curiosity killed the Kata... ... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count.
malaire
#6 - 2012-06-19 12:19:09 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
It is silly that you get one for NPC attacking you, but you do. They have issues is all, no worries.

I've heard that it is meaningfull if you happen to be in solarsystem owned by that NPC, since it means their stations will attack you. But all such solarsystems are outside highsec so in highsec NPC aggression has no meaning.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#7 - 2012-06-19 22:21:24 UTC
malaire wrote:
Sugar Kyle wrote:
It is silly that you get one for NPC attacking you, but you do. They have issues is all, no worries.

I've heard that it is meaningfull if you happen to be in solarsystem owned by that NPC, since it means their stations will attack you. But all such solarsystems are outside highsec so in highsec NPC aggression has no meaning.

Sure it does. If you shoot an Amarr Navy NPC, Amarr Navy station and gate guns will shoot you, but Republic Fleet ones will not if you jump into the next system over.

It's a weird edge case where this matters, but it does matter.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Litair
Nleesh
#8 - 2012-06-19 23:05:27 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
malaire wrote:
Sugar Kyle wrote:
It is silly that you get one for NPC attacking you, but you do. They have issues is all, no worries.

I've heard that it is meaningfull if you happen to be in solarsystem owned by that NPC, since it means their stations will attack you. But all such solarsystems are outside highsec so in highsec NPC aggression has no meaning.

Sure it does. If you shoot an Amarr Navy NPC, Amarr Navy station and gate guns will shoot you, but Republic Fleet ones will not if you jump into the next system over.

It's a weird edge case where this matters, but it does matter.


So I guess the key is to know where it matters and where it doesn't really matter so much, to avoid unfortunate incidents ^^
Darieos Olacar
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-06-20 02:09:52 UTC
I also have a question regarding the aggression system.

If someone was to shoot at me in High Sec and I return fire does that flag me as a aggressor to their corporation or just that specific target?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#10 - 2012-06-20 02:21:38 UTC
Darieos Olacar wrote:
I also have a question regarding the aggression system.

If someone was to shoot at me in High Sec and I return fire does that flag me as a aggressor to their corporation or just that specific target?

Flags you as aggressor just to that target if he was first to get aggressed (if he was flashy to you before you were flashy to him).

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Darieos Olacar
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-06-20 02:51:22 UTC
Thanks for the answer. Now another question.

If you shoot my corp mate, what are my options if any? Can i repair him or shoot you without causing a storm upon myself?
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#12 - 2012-06-20 05:29:04 UTC
Darieos Olacar wrote:
Thanks for the answer. Now another question.

If you shoot my corp mate, what are my options if any? Can i repair him or shoot you without causing a storm upon myself?


Repairing someone always allows whoever's shooting at them to shoot you. Whether you're allowed to shoot the guy shooting your mate depends on how their little battle started. If your mate stole from them, you're not going to be allowed to help, if it's the other way about you can shoot as soon as he takes from the corp-flagged container.

The aggression system for players and how it relates to criminal flagging is a bit wonky, honestly. The main thing to remember is that if you're about to do anything that invokes the wrath of CONCORD you'll get a little "wait, really?" dialogue box popping up before it lets you actually fire. I recommend not clicking the checkbox that turns this warning off.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-06-20 06:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
If they turn red you can shoot them, simplist thing to remember

Unless you're part of the aggro party in which case you need to know, like that thing we discovered while combating the incursion runners that was awesome because they never got a warning Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Darieos Olacar
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-06-20 08:23:44 UTC
It is understoo that one can shoot reds or criminals without Concord getting involved. The question is, what happens with corporation flagging? I do not wish to attempt to halt a gank attempt only to allow others to come to tear us apart.

Example: If Bob and Joe show up ,and Joe targets and fires upon my corp mate, in high sec, then I return fire at Joe. Is Bob able to shoot at me without fear of Concord?

It really is kind of confusing.
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#15 - 2012-06-20 08:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Athechu
Hello Darieos,

So Aggression can be confusing in hi-sec. I will do my best to answer your question as well feel free to ask additional questions if your confused. So there are 3 Forms of "legal" combat within Hi-Sec space which won't get CONCORD to come.
1) War Dec
2) "Steal" a jet can
3) Same Corporation

1) War Dec - You have a legal war ("Registered with CONCORD") and they will let you be and you can shoot anyone within that corporation/alliance freely without worries.

2) Stealing a Can - Now this is where it does get tricky. So you steal Player A's jet can while in space and they are in a player corporation. In the upper left corner you will see a yellow aggression timer begin. This lasts for 15 minutes for the Player AND their corporation since you stole their "stuff". This will allow anyone within Player A's corporation to shoot you freely as you stole from their corporation.

Now lets say Player B comes in and is in Player A's Corporation as well and shoots you. Than you have the right to return fire on Player B. But if Player A does not shoot you than you cannot shoot player A but only player B. Even if they have the rights to shoot at you it doesn't mean they will. Make sure that on your overview they are red otherwise CONCORD will show up and kill you.

Recap: You steal from Player A's can and Player B shows up and shoots you. You can return fire on Player B but not Player A.

Now to make it a bit more complicated if they bring in logistical support that isn't with the corporation and starts to repair player B you can shoot that logistical pilot but remember if you shoot them you give them aggression and rights to fire back onto you.

3) Corporation - If your in the same corporation your freely allowed to shoot each other without CONCORD getting in the way.

Now you asked
Quote:
Example: If Bob and Joe show up ,and Joe targets and fires upon my corp mate, in high sec, then I return fire at Joe. Is Bob able to shoot at me without fear of Concord?


If Bob and Joe show up and Joe shoots your corp mate you cannot return fire onto Joe as he has not done any aggression towards you and you have none to him. If your corp mate took a can and Bob and Joe are in the same corporation than Bob and Joe can shoot your corp mate but you still cannot shoot them back. This is kinda like situation 2 above.

Note: This does not apply if you have a War Dec.

Wiki Link on Aggression Timer: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Aggression_Timer

I hope this helped a little bit. Feel free to ask more questions if your a bit confused on something.

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011
Darieos Olacar
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-06-20 09:08:52 UTC
So from all that I gather there is no way in aiding in the defense of your corp in high sec? I was considering using a blackbird with ECMs to ward off any would be gankers, or my own destroyer. From the sounds of it that is impossible? Most we can do is throw shield transfers or remote repairs at them and "hope for the best"?

I was hoping that upon seeing a suspicious character coming around I would be able to lock onto him and either ECM him or destroy him myself quickly after he opened fire on a member of my corporation.

With that thought does throwing transfers and repairs affect Kill rights?

Also, with Kill Rights, is the target of the Kill Right under the same rules? Meaning their corp mates can only "watch"?
Darieos Olacar
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-06-20 09:21:49 UTC
I just briefly read about the criminal flagging system and what you have written and what it says do not agree. I should be able to open fire on a potential ganker because he becomes a global criminal, correct? His corp mates should not be able to help him any way without becoming criminals themselves. Which would put all of them on the receiving end of Concord's weapons.

Or, am I still missing something?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#18 - 2012-06-20 09:53:29 UTC
Darieos Olacar wrote:
So from all that I gather there is no way in aiding in the defense of your corp in high sec? I was considering using a blackbird with ECMs to ward off any would be gankers, or my own destroyer. From the sounds of it that is impossible? Most we can do is throw shield transfers or remote repairs at them and "hope for the best"?


In hisec, yes. If you attack first, CONCORD will consider you to be a criminal. After all CONCORD isn't concerned about intent, only actions.

Darieos Olacar wrote:
I was hoping that upon seeing a suspicious character coming around I would be able to lock onto him and either ECM him or destroy him myself quickly after he opened fire on a member of my corporation.


You need to be in low sec, null sec or Unknown space for that to work. In low or null, the suspicious character will likely light a cyno beacon and you will have a fleet of capital ships blowing you up.

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Darieos Olacar
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-06-20 10:30:30 UTC
The contradictions are making my head hurt.

You enter a high security asteroid belt.

You find 2 Hulks and a blackbird, all in the same corporation.

The blackbird sees you and locks onto you, but does not fire or use any aggressive modules.

You lock onto and fire at one of the hulks. (You become a global criminal to everyone correct?)

Blackbird then hits you with all offensive systems, ECMs and turrets.



What happens to the blackbird? Flags or aggression timers?
ISD Etetia
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-06-20 11:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Etetia
Darieos Olacar wrote:
The contradictions are making my head hurt.
You lock onto and fire at one of the hulks. (You become a global criminal to everyone correct?)

Blackbird then hits you with all offensive systems, ECMs and turrets.

What happens to the blackbird? Flags or aggression timers?


What you say here is correct, a person attacking a neutral in 0.1 -> 1.0 security space is marked with global aggression, and can be attacked by everyone.

The blackbird in this scenario will fire at a target, which is legal to attack, and will not recieve global aggression, however, combat will always refresh an aggression timer between the parties involved, and as a result, you will also, technically, be allowed to shoot back at the blackbird for 15 minutes.

This does not make much difference though, as Concord will kill you anyway at this point.

To to sum it up:
If you have global aggression, everyone can attack you
anyone shooting at you, you can legally shoot back at

ISD Etetia

Commander

ISD STAR / CCL Affiliate
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