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How do you feel about....
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Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#1 - 2012-06-20 00:11:46 UTC
...people self destructing capitals in the middle of a fight? While it is a valid game mechanic, it really drives me nuts. And I won't lie, it does make me want to force them to self destruct more caps, if you know what i mean. Evil

No trolling please
Masikari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-06-20 00:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Masikari
The way I see it is if your opponent is self-destructing their Caps, then you as the attacker have done your job. True you will not get the KM or any loot, but that is a valid tactic they can use. So, I like having the option of SD as it's a bit of pay back for the victim.

But I can see it both ways. For instance, if it was a revenge attack I would want that damn killmail!!!

A question for you, Sir - would you rather have the killmail or the loot?
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#3 - 2012-06-20 00:28:04 UTC
Truth be told, I would rather have the killmail. There is no shame in going out fighting, and I personally wouild never SD anything just to avoid a loss. if you catch me and break me down, you've earned the killmail.

As far as loot goes, I could care less about it. There is plenty of isk in wormhole space to where loot means little to me.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions of Bane Nucleus do not reflect the views and opinions of the Kairos Syndicate and/or Transmission Lost.Lol

No trolling please
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2012-06-20 01:10:49 UTC
Never done any cap-killing but had always viewed the stories of cap self-destruction thru the lens of "attackers didn't bring enough DPS to do the job properly themselves". Perhaps that's an unreasonable view to take.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#5 - 2012-06-20 01:44:07 UTC
loot means nothing to me, all I want is some proof that I just force that guy SD his cap with all the fitting on "SD killmail". that'd be more than enough
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#6 - 2012-06-20 02:08:18 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Never done any cap-killing but had always viewed the stories of cap self-destruction thru the lens of "attackers didn't bring enough DPS to do the job properly themselves". Perhaps that's an unreasonable view to take.


That just encourages blobbing rather than good fights.

I've been in a few fights where carriers have managed to SD while half way through structure so its not really a valid counter point. Only time I have any sympathy for an SDing capital pilot is when they get let down by their fleet/corp i.e. when they warp out to save their shiny ships at the expense of the carrier when they had a decent chance to win the fight if they'd stayed.

Its certainly something that could do with looking at imo I don't think in general people should be able to escape the consequences (relatively speaking) of their actions.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-06-20 03:38:31 UTC
it's a horseshit tactic that needs fixing.
at minimum it needs to generate a KM.

easily top of my 'things that need fixing' list.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Bernie Nator
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#8 - 2012-06-20 03:42:29 UTC
I feel you should have a certain amount of cap to SD. Say, 50%?

Sounds fair.
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-06-20 07:13:27 UTC
I would like to see SD appear as a loss on the guys KB, can't be shown as a kill on the attacking party since they didn't score the final blow, but should still appear as a loss, if it hurts the e-peen, they might think twice.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Masikari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-06-20 07:20:49 UTC
Ah, now if the Carrier was the initial attacker and then decides to self-destruct, there should def be a killmail. Otherwise the attacker isn't getting penalised for his ill actions (other than the loss of the Carrier itself).

But I imagine the coding for that would be a nightmare tho!
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2012-06-20 07:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
It's lame, but a necessary mechanic to exist in game. However, it needs adjusting to minimize the faggotry.

My suggestion to change the SD mechanics:

- SD not possible inside a POS forcefield
- SD destroys your pod
- timer dependent on ship class, longer time for bigger ships
- SD generates a lossmail, if it is performed under aggression timer

These changes would allow people to SD their ships as usual, but not to prevent the facts from getting on the killboards.


EDIT: Sin Pew's lossmail only suggestion makes more sense.

.
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-06-20 08:59:20 UTC
Just out of curiosity
If someone's stuck without probes in a wh-system, should it generate a lossmail?
If someone SD their pod to travel faster across New Eden, should it generate a lossmail?

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2012-06-20 09:19:54 UTC
No, lossmail should happen only if SD is initiated under aggression timer.

.
NotiCon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-06-20 09:27:32 UTC
Won't allow self destructing in my corp, if they manage to get ahold of you then they deserve the killmail. Don't see why people are so bothered tbh. Self destructing is just admitting you're an idiot in the first place and that you're ashamed.

- Noti
Janus Nanzikambe
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#15 - 2012-06-20 09:52:04 UTC
I've lost my fair share of capital kills due to SD. That said I do feel that the defender, in the interests of denying his shiny modules and cargo should fall into "enemy" hands, should retain that option.

I think a compromise should be made;


  1. When a ship self destructs any player that has aggressed it within the last few minutes should recieve a killmail of sorts showing the bare hull, the damage it had taken at the time of destruction from every involved party. No fitted modules or rigs shown. This will at least flesh out battle reports giving more insight into what actually happened in the moments leading up to the SD.

  2. As with losses under GCC, no insurance should be paid at all for ships lost to a self destruct. This means the pilot has an actual incentive to fight until his last if he wants to receive even the default payout or SD and forfeit everything.

  3. Timers should be altered, with carriers recieving the current 2 minute timer, dreads receiving slightly more and super capitals being roughly double the ammount of time. SD on pods should be shortened to 60 seconds.



My 0.02
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2012-06-20 10:07:52 UTC
wtf, do you get insurance for blowing up your own ship?

~CCP~

.
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#17 - 2012-06-20 10:10:32 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
I would like to see SD appear as a loss on the guys KB, can't be shown as a kill on the attacking party since they didn't score the final blow, but should still appear as a loss, if it hurts the e-peen, they might think twice.

This is reasonable.

I don't like people SD'ing things on me, but this is Eve, they have payed for the ship and should be able to do whatever they want with it.

I feel that any game-logic restricting this would be a step in the wrong direction.

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com
Ashimat
Clandestine Services
#18 - 2012-06-20 10:11:53 UTC
Sin Pew wrote:
Just out of curiosity
If someone's stuck without probes in a wh-system, should it generate a lossmail?
If someone SD their pod to travel faster across New Eden, should it generate a lossmail?

Yes and yes.

Why not?

Got blog: http://thecloakedones.blogspot.com
Janus Nanzikambe
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#19 - 2012-06-20 10:15:27 UTC
Roime wrote:
wtf, do you get insurance for blowing up your own ship?

~CCP~



Yes. Even ships that are uninsured recieve a default 40% insurance payout.
Mr Bigwinky
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-06-20 10:19:14 UTC
A killmail is just a record of who shot something and when it exploded. Why would pilots not be able to document such an event just because it blew up earlier than you expected? It is rediculous.

Killmail should be generated if SD whilst aggressed, it should not destroy POD or require cap or anything.

I do agree that some ships should have a longer timer - primarily capitals.
Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself ♥
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