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New dev blog: EVE updating - Winter expansion 2011

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Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#381 - 2011-10-07 00:45:24 UTC
White Tree wrote:
Quote:
Hybrid weapons balancing


Your welcome, EVE Online community.

(white tree for csm 7)


Oh shut UPPPPPPPP. Don't think that it was "all you". A large number of people have been campaigning for a hybrid fix for literally years. It's the effort of hundreds of players over years of time, and CCP finally pulling its collective head out of its collective ass.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Becky Manson
Doomheim
#382 - 2011-10-07 02:31:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Becky Manson
Uhm,

AFK cloakers & Delayed local

I'm not really sure why people worry so much about them, however, here is a suggestion.

Create a module for sov holding alliance(s) which gives them the ability to disable all cloaks in a system. These modules should at minimum have a timer as to avoid abuse of being turned on and off every five minutes. They also should be able to be destroyed as any other anchored structure.

Personally I like the idea of delayed local. It gives human players time to aquire bots and dispatch them to their new clone.


Just my two wooden nickels.
Zakurai
Perkone
Caldari State
#383 - 2011-10-07 02:46:39 UTC
All of this is awesome, but for the love of all that is holy fix the completely broken bounty system. I'd like to see something other than piracy to encourage pvp. Committing a crime should be something that would have more weight to it than needing to rat for a few hours.
Endeavour Starfleet
#384 - 2011-10-07 03:22:47 UTC
Becky Manson wrote:
Uhm,

AFK cloakers & Delayed local

I'm not really sure why people worry so much about them, however, here is a suggestion.

Create a module for sov holding alliance(s) which gives them the ability to disable all cloaks in a system. These modules should at minimum have a timer as to avoid abuse of being turned on and off every five minutes. They also should be able to be destroyed as any other anchored structure.

Personally I like the idea of delayed local. It gives human players time to aquire bots and dispatch them to their new clone.


Just my two wooden nickels.


Because with anything that changes the intel system as it is. Most likely your first indication of an enemy system is him coming out of warp on top of you.

It's a free gank. Atleast free for the few months that people will accept it until mass amounts leave and then some alliances will be able to run permacap system that costs a fortune to do anything in. Making things far far worse.

There are several ideas on how to give AFK cloakers risk. I am not in favor if disabling the cloak completely. Just forcing them to remain at their keyboards like everyone who uses a nullsec system. A system of nerfed probes that can decloak them is one I support.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#385 - 2011-10-07 04:08:00 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Becky Manson wrote:
Uhm,

AFK cloakers & Delayed local

I'm not really sure why people worry so much about them, however, here is a suggestion.

Create a module for sov holding alliance(s) which gives them the ability to disable all cloaks in a system. These modules should at minimum have a timer as to avoid abuse of being turned on and off every five minutes. They also should be able to be destroyed as any other anchored structure.

Personally I like the idea of delayed local. It gives human players time to aquire bots and dispatch them to their new clone.


Just my two wooden nickels.


Because with anything that changes the intel system as it is. Most likely your first indication of an enemy system is him coming out of warp on top of you.

It's a free gank. Atleast free for the few months that people will accept it until mass amounts leave and then some alliances will be able to run permacap system that costs a fortune to do anything in. Making things far far worse.

There are several ideas on how to give AFK cloakers risk. I am not in favor if disabling the cloak completely. Just forcing them to remain at their keyboards like everyone who uses a nullsec system. A system of nerfed probes that can decloak them is one I support.


It's been said in the past that if delayed local (or removal of local) happens it will be because they have replaced it with a different (automated) scanning system. My ear pricked up a bit when they increased the range of the directional scanner a while back as I thought it might be a precursor to this being implemented.

On a different tack, I noticed this post somewhere in the middle of this thread:

Quote:
Honestly, I'm totally disappointed and some quirky remarks in Hilmar's little blog there sound like F2P model soonish. At least to me.


Sure.... wait WHAT!!! I really don't think the realities of the situation could be spelled out any clearer. I have no idea what the weather is like on planet Bizzaro but I'm sure you do.

You followed with this:

Quote:
I know many people will leave again now because the promise for fully working WiS, e.g. MEET EACH OTHER in person is effectively cancelled. And I don't think the same resources work on that part as do on improving FiS. It's an excuse.


I don't remember a promise, nor do I see a definitive statement that it will not be included, and frankly I'm pretty sure you have no idea what members of the Dev team would have to be pulled from WIS development to work on establishments.

I would love to see establishments in the winter expansion, I have no doubt that CCP would dearly love to see this as well, but with the majority of the player base (at least those that post on the forums) demanding that Incarna content take a back seat to FIS content their priorities have been forced to shift.

This is the classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. If they delay establishments because they devote more resources to FIS (per public demand) they get slammed for again for creating unfinished content... because they diverted resources to work on... unfinished content. Durr...

Unless CCP puts their Dev team through a meat grinder you can't have it both ways.

Still, they have done the impossible before so I haven't given up hope just yet.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#386 - 2011-10-07 04:16:10 UTC
A better option for dealing with cloakies who just go AFK all day would be for the cloaking devices to wind down on some sort of timer where they just wear out after 60-120 minutes. Maybe have them slowly take heat damage and have to be repaired. Smaller ships might be able to stay cloaked for longer before overheating, or you could add modules/rigs that let you exchange utility/gank for a longer-lasting cloak (before you have to decloak and apply nanite paste to repair it before recloaking).

(Disclosure, I fly cloaked ships - a lot.)
Endeavour Starfleet
#387 - 2011-10-07 04:45:38 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
A better option for dealing with cloakies who just go AFK all day would be for the cloaking devices to wind down on some sort of timer where they just wear out after 60-120 minutes. Maybe have them slowly take heat damage and have to be repaired. Smaller ships might be able to stay cloaked for longer before overheating, or you could add modules/rigs that let you exchange utility/gank for a longer-lasting cloak (before you have to decloak and apply nanite paste to repair it before recloaking).

(Disclosure, I fly cloaked ships - a lot.)


Issue with that is that it could affect legit use of the cloak such as live intel gathering. Also such modules would be easy for a bot system to handle.

A type of probe that can decloak ships after giving such ships fair warning is in my idea the best solution. But I would support your idea and others over doing nothing on AFK cloaking at all.
beor oranes
Annihilate.
#388 - 2011-10-07 05:32:37 UTC
For once this is a good CCP surprise...
Toryn Atserahs
Section 39
#389 - 2011-10-07 05:51:05 UTC
Always fun to hear the nullsec carebears crying over local changes that will actually make them take risk in nullsec. If you want to engage in risk free ISK harvesting, go to Empire. Otherwise enjoy the upcoming local changes which everyone else is looking forward to.

I'm looking forward to the bot hunting.
Alaizabel Bronstein
Doomheim
#390 - 2011-10-07 05:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaizabel Bronstein
Ranger 1 wrote:
It's been said in the past that if delayed local (or removal of local) happens it will be because they have replaced it with a different (automated) scanning system. My ear pricked up a bit when they increased the range of the directional scanner a while back as I thought it might be a precursor to this being implemented.

what an informed & authorative opinion! I sure hope CCP will consult you on any changes to local & scanning they might be planning in the future!

... except for the part where you don't grasp the difference between the on-board scanner (the range of which got increased) and the directional scanner (the range of which stayed the same).


your "different (automated) scanning system" is called the "overview" today - it used to be known as the autoscanner (which replaced the old threats indicator).
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#391 - 2011-10-07 06:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Alaizabel Bronstein wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
It's been said in the past that if delayed local (or removal of local) happens it will be because they have replaced it with a different (automated) scanning system. My ear pricked up a bit when they increased the range of the directional scanner a while back as I thought it might be a precursor to this being implemented.

what an informed & authorative opinion! I sure hope CCP will consult you on any changes to local & scanning they might be planning in the future!

... except for the part where you don't grasp the difference between the on-board scanner (the range of which got increased) and the directional scanner (the range of which stayed the same).


your "different (automated) scanning system" is called the "overview" today - it used to be known as the autoscanner (which replaced the old threats indicator).


Actually, I do grasp the difference between the on-board scanner and the directional scanner. However, as it is late, I miss stated which scanner got the range increase. It was inadvertent and you are correct in catching the error. However that in no way affects the point I was making.

That being that if local is delayed or removed it will likely be replaced with an automated scanning mechanic (unless they come up with a better way of handling it). This mechanic could be a standard part of any ship (perhaps with different ships having more/less efficient scanners) or a module you would need to mount.

It's purpose would be to scan automatically for incoming hostile threats every few seconds, and if you are paying attention it would provide you with enough time to warp out/prepare to fight/whatever before the inbound bogies arrived.

It's range would likely be relatively limited, giving at best only a few seconds warning, but significantly further than your overview (LOL).

So good catch on my incorrect reference to the D-scan, but Big smile at thinking I was referring to the overview as a replacement to local.

Edit: By the way, I do remember the old interface. While the concept had merit, in practical use that ugly blue 3-D representation was a waste of screen real estate. The current Tactical view is much more efficient to bring up when you have need of it.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Seleene
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#392 - 2011-10-07 07:14:20 UTC
I've posted a more informative response to this thread in my blog:

Winter 2011 is Coming

Enjoy and comments welcome.

2004-2008: Mercenary Coalition Boss

2007-2010: CCP Game Designer | 2011-2013: CSM6 Delegate & CSM7 Chairman

2011-2015: Pandemic Legionnaire

2015- : Mercenary Coalition Boss

Follow Seleene on Twitter!
Octarius Eskravu
The Racing Mackerels
#393 - 2011-10-07 08:25:16 UTC
All good, all good!
It makes me happy that the community is being heard...so i'll take my chances:

Now that CCP removed the timer to swap ships after docking ( thank you CCP that minor change was WAY more important than CQ all by itself )...PLEASE LET US ASSIGN A FIXED ORBIT TO A SHIP! while still docked or not...but a fixed orbit for a specific fit / tactic.

Ex: 2 same ships, but different fighting approaches, 1 close range combat, the other kite fit...when you fit the ship you can assign a orbit to it, doesnt matter if you change ships later, when you undock that particular ship IT WILL have the orbit that you assigned to it...

I have lost countless ships, mostly cause of changing from a close range fit to a kite one, where i fly the untanked kite fit straight into scram range ( when this happens in fast ships, even if you realize the mistake it will never be on time ) but not asking this cause of that...it just makes sense, and makes the experience better ( remember you will always have the option to change orbit during a fight, its just a sort of default orbit value for each ship you fit )
Endeavour Starfleet
#394 - 2011-10-07 09:03:05 UTC
No No NO

ANYTHING that prevents people from knowing a hostile has entered system will be exploited to hell and back.

For instance making something autoscan or range based. They will just warp to far safespot out of range and be on top of you before you can warp (Instawarps are fantasy period) Or they will simply log there. Log back in make a scan and be on you again as if local was delayed in the first place.

The ONLY thing I MIGHT accept if it is easy to do. Is having people have to do something to reveal the name. With the window only showing dots or counts of Blues Neuts and reds. But to do so ought to be some kind of Dscan that can reveal it and not affect the basic knowlege that there is a hostile in system when they come in.

Local is fine. Improve it dont delay or remove it. Don't kill nullsec!
BadBoyBubby
Cult of the Crayon
#395 - 2011-10-07 09:20:25 UTC
"Capital ship balancing"

hahahahaha....you have a funny way of spelling NERF!!!
zahg
PARABELUM-Project
#396 - 2011-10-07 11:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: zahg
Dear CCP, please read my argumentation.

I'm glad you finally recovered from your 3 years coma. However, for me this is just the surface of the problem that make eve what it is now: a frustrating game.

Indeed, the strong problem of EVE is not only purely "material" but also deeply "social". Hybrids need improvments, super cap some nerfing and EVE community needs to be shaped to answer to the main theme of EVE: THE PVP.
I raise a question here: How can the primaes, hulks, drakes, retreivers, rookies, cyno kestrels, bestowers, badgers, ravens to be the ships more flown in eve since 2008? (expect for primae we agree).

I will answer this question according to my personal point of view: Nobody want to PVP because EVE became a giant mess of cowardice, virtual fear, lose of the main objectives in/from the game.

- Cowardice and fear: PVP is the only way in eve to lose everything and win nothing, in a virtual world strongly oriented on the economic aspect since all your patch consists in economics boosting, and PVP nerfing. Then, have a proper fight in eve is rare. We see more and more drake blobs in 0.0, more and more neutral logistics and jam systems/boats in hight and low...we see 80 super cap jumping on a single BC in 0.0 and 20 BC's + logistics and falcons for a single frigate in low sec.

- Lose of the game objectives: this is as much from the individuals than from the macro ingame societies. Confidence, respect, intelligence and self-improvement are mostly gone. This is the results reached by a EVE community that observed a massive turnover in the mentality. And CCP is the main raison of this. Every single day players get more unrespectfull, cowards, scared, selfish due to the raison explained before. Seriously, to apply to a single corp you need a FULL API now? where is my right to enjoy the game when my virtual leaders don't expect me to enjoy it but only to be a pet or an harmless avatar? This is just an exemple.


To finish i'll show you some exemple of what killed that game and the fantastic mentality of EVE players:

- Web nerfing
- Ridiculous timers
- Logistic ships
- Jamming
- Neutral reping
- Poor loot/salvage from PVP wrecks or abscence of PVP rewards (loyauty points for pvp unstead of vanity goods???)
- Wormholes
- Cloak T3, indus, jammers...wait...cloaks everywhere!
- Agent standing removed
- Agent quality removed
- etc...


If you want to know more about this, please contact me ingame and i'll explain my ideas with more details.
I wish your new dispositions and changes will be effective, and the first ones of a long work to come.
I also apologize for my poor english.

Regards,

Zahg
Roland Knighthawk
Nephite Tribe
#397 - 2011-10-07 11:22:44 UTC
LOGO's ?

My Alliance has been waiting 5 months for a Logo in-game .. any chance Logos will be rolled out with any of the releases soon ???
Davelantor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#398 - 2011-10-07 11:32:17 UTC
"EVE Online´s Winter 2011 expansion will be themed around improvements to warfare and PVP"
An other great achievement for CCP providing unfulfilled promises and not doing what they said.

Where is the walking in stations ? ... Where is Incarna ?
Or is captains quarters will be the image of walking in stations for the next 3 years, totaling the wait for walking in stations into a full 10 years of unfulfilled promises.

Finish what you started.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#399 - 2011-10-07 11:39:51 UTC
Toryn Atserahs wrote:
CCP,

Please don't forget about the Legion, it's the redheaded step child of the T3. Give it a look please!

Also, please consider removing local...give us a chance to hunt down the bots!



Also, this.

Sure these first steps around high demanded changes are excellent choices for CCP to show us they care about our opinions.

I'd like to give a little note to CCP about T3's, thinking every one agrees or at least most, some subs can't find any sort of use and others underpowered to the point it is right now where a single T3 like the Tengu, wich believe me I fly with pleasure, dominates every single other overall either in pvp or pve where the others only have tight niches to be used.

They're intended to be versatile and effective in whatever role you choose to use them, well less than specific T2 versions, what we see today and due to many game mechanics being broken or ships/subs bonus, is that it's not the case.

They do deserve some attention, at less extent than Capitals, hybrids, gallente hulls, FW, low sec, null sec, industry etc but they should be on the list "to do".

Thx. keep the good job.
Jeffrey Powel
Primal Elemental
MARABUNTA
#400 - 2011-10-07 11:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeffrey Powel
CCP Guard wrote:
Following Hilmar's letter to the community, CCP Zulu has things to say about the future.

Please check it out and leave your feedback here.


What is the problem? you are not able to read the EVE forum to see what hapen?
Put your head out of your ass and go read forum....
What can i say? wait and see, cause we can't trust you.
You have to lose subscriber to tell us what we want to hear, so i'am suspicious.

Main issues in EVE is since 2 year you are making a carebear (and bots) paradise game. Totally broke the blockade war or skirmish war whith easy logistic tool "hello i undock my jumpfreighter out of 4-4 in jita and get the **** away", make the tools to have epic blob in only one systeme very easy "cynowar ftw". PPL don't have to fight unless for the mainblob of the week.
If we add :
-CCP increased logistic, increased HP of ship, increased average resist, but not able to increase timer...(Hello, i logoff my MS and if you are not a ******* blob i won't die", or the epic move "He, you caught my T3 uber tanked, i self destruct cause you are not enought to kill me fast enought)
-CCP created new epic cloaky ship like recoon, T3 cloak, but still diden't create tools to find AFK cloaker.
-CCP created capital ship, whith XL gun, XL rep, XL remote, but only L rigs.
-CCP spend our money to create a 3D toilet whith a sofa instead fix bug and create new ship.
-CCP created epic no brains ship like MS (trololol cynotrap, launch drone, cynoout) or falcon (trololol uncloak, uber jam) and the epic, amazing logistics (trololol make a BC tank 2 BS, and trololol be able to jump/dock if agressed)
-CCP just don't play the game they dev, cause have to wait YEARS to have a F UCKING railgun boost, it's simply amazing, all 1 month rookie is able to say "railgun suck"
-Ect, Ect,Ect