Player Features and Ideas Discussion

When will armor reps get the same love and attention as shield reps? Most armor ships suffer from lack of midslots for cap boosters, and I think a real reasonable solution to the lackluster viability of armor repping in solo and small gang pvp would be to enable active armor ships to free themselves from the need to have a midslot consumed by cap boosting. It would also help them not be so vulnerable to cap warfare.

Its primary drawbacks should be:
1) Increased powergrid requirements over a regular repper
2) Similar drawbacks to the Ancillary boosters requiring cap boosters, and long reload times.
3) High cap usage.

The real difficulty with armor pvp is that pvp ship fittings require 2-3 midslots already for any viable fit. using a thorax as an example, one slot MUST BE a mwd. Your second slot MUST BE a scram, and your third slot MUST BE a web, or simply, its not going to be able to kill anything, as it will simply fly out of its 5KM gun range. This leaves no room for a cap booster, required for armor repping. This leaves the only viable fit for a thorax either a nano shield thorax (which is kind of a head scratcher) and the 1600 mm plate thorax. Not so much flexibility.

I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and what's good for shield repping, is good for armor repping.

Seems Op is making suggestions to make it viable, but seems you didn't found out /doublefacepalm

Obvious part is obvious and agree but notice ships are about to be balanced (Soon Tm) so this might change a lot of stuff
On top Hybrids (read Rails) are still in need of tweaks, specially medium ones
The new armor skill on next update will decrease for 50% time duration for the adaptive plate to be 100% reactive to income dmg

However this doesn't change that much how unbalanced shield/armor tanking and self reps/logis are



1- T2 LAR is already a strong nerf to your tank compared to plates for regular fight duration, they don't rep enough/fast and are already extremely cap hungry on top of the highest cap hungry Turret based ships witch makes it even more painful.

Less Cap consumption per cycle for armor reps is needed to balance those huge turret cap drawbacks, if they ever sort some kind of Ancillary Armor Rep, witch I sincerely doubt, could keep same PG/CPU requirements

2-Agree but without *numbers* ...

3- Since you use cap boosters you don't use ships capacitor - Cap booster charges should also see their size decrease a little bit (20% would be nice)



Then God made Minmatar
If you actually armor fit most minmatar ships all you will say to yourself is "what the heck !!" -you can't use all the PG available, you have far more slots than you need, you keep a decent base/mwd top speed, have a great tank but dps isn't there (well since blasters version 1.2)

Most problems you are pointing here were/are already debated for over 5 years, took over 3 to read ccp recognise hybrids were not performing as intended
Lets see what ships balance will bring us as surprise, well I actually must say CCP Ybert did an awesome job around T1 frigs, just hope he will be in charge for cruiser/battle cruiser and battleship rebalance.

Until then we have to deal wiz it by mostly shield tanking, witch is an obvious intended mechanic you know the story of wolves and cheeps and some guys saying stuff.

All this changes, good or bad, about to come will influence on the need and how those Ancillary Armor Reps could be introduced, but by all means I think this should be done and help revitalise smaller roaming gangs to do bigger trips to get fights without fear once their logi is out they're doomed and all it's left is to roll back to the gate then log off.
(cloaky hauler for cap booster stock etc could make armor gangs so much more fun)

+1

It's also worth noting that as you pointed out, mids are important. This makes fitting dual anci repping shield tanks difficult, whereas most viable armor tanks are already dual repped.

It makes applying the concept of anci boosters to armor tanks pretty difficult, because its too easy to circumvent the primary drawback without trade offs.

Of course not.

What you are asking for is for armor to be better at buffer tanking, and as good (or better?) at active tanking.

No.

If you think the dual anci maelstrom is bad, imagine a dual anci vindicator

Or triple anci dominix....

They "couldn't" because *balance*. It's the reason why I support OP and try to find something that could be a possible choice or idea for dev's to implement.

Actually some T2 LAR gives 800hp with a huuuuuuuuuge timer and reps at the end of cycle, the highes Dead Space meta mod, gives an extra 460 EHP for a total 1260 HP rep amount (not factoring ultra expensive combat boosters and whatnot booster at all) and so cap hungry.

The ASB idea is to bring a big ass kick shield tank for a limited amount of time (cap boost chages available in your cargo+fitted ones), so this is also possible for armor and I can't see any valid reason why shouldn't be possible or argue it will make it the same.

One reps shields one reps armor, one reps at the beginning one reps at the end, so they're not equal witch makes the old argument "they shouldn't be equal" go down he toilets.
However the same idea can be applied for armor, they have natural armor rep drawbacks and differences with shields that are slower rep/amount PG hungry but the final idea is more about increase the number of fight options for armor ships, this can't be bad or unbalanced even before we talk about the negative and positive points.

Not pretending to have the ultimate opinion about this but I'd like to do much more stuff with my prot/mega than station/gate games (witch made me just used them less than shield counterparts or shield Megas)
Shield fitting Armor ships shouldn't be the sign or seen like some special internet awesomeness where everyone miss the main point:

-why the heck are those armor ships if they are far effective with shield mods?

-what is the problem here, shields being far too easy and good to fit/use or armor terribad when you're not flying capitals with your slaved+ hardwiring implanted clone, ultra expensive combat boosters, Double Titan whatnot booster?

-why the heck should be that easy to fit a 20man or whatever shield fleet with minimum logis (scimis everyone?) still fit a hell of a buffer (increasing natural shields regen thus tank) , and armor be sitting ducks because even their grandma would look like a Ferrari at top speed, heavily cap dependant (read fragile) and actually for some of those have ACTIVE rep bonus that can't be used except little to exceptional situation?


Just some points that I think make it shields/armor unbalance far too important leading to peeps rather fit shield mods on megathrons/domis (just 2 examples but there are far more).

That would be the triple ASB myrmidon that will be dead 2 minutes into the fight because his ASBs ran out of cap chargers and had to spend a minute recharging. Mean while the triple rep armor myrm is still full armor. You mean that one?

You people seem to forget that the ASBs have a limited duration before they just don't work for a minute (or drain your cap REALLY fast).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnwI2oVCkqk&feature=fvwrel
Totally Useless. Not worth using at all.
Skip to about 5:30. Vindi Tanking 6BSs and 5BCs.

I was agreeing with you......