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Modern Day ICBMs can go much further than missiles in EVE. Why?

Author
Wu Jiaqiu
#1 - 2012-06-15 12:26:45 UTC
Is it because a wizard is not allowing heavy missiles to travel too far?
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
#2 - 2012-06-15 20:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Pottsey
Wu Jiaqiu wrote:
Is it because a wizard is not allowing heavy missiles to travel too far?

Eve is liquid space which is also why you lose speed once engines turn off. (please note facts posted might be 100% made up)
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-06-15 21:45:32 UTC
Modern day doors open.

It's just the way it is.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.

Wu Jiaqiu
#4 - 2012-06-15 22:01:50 UTC
Pottsey wrote:
Wu Jiaqiu wrote:
Is it because a wizard is not allowing heavy missiles to travel too far?

Eve is liquid space which is also why you lose speed once engines turn off. (please note facts posted might be 100% made up)


I actually thing I read about this somewhere...but never payed any attention to it. Is there something explaining liquid space in the lore?
Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2012-06-15 22:12:20 UTC
For ships, yes - the use of a warp drive aboard a ship apparently causes a drag-like effect when the ship is not in warp. Moreover, warp drives cannot easily be 'flipped' on and off at the turn of a switch, explaining why we can't just turn them off and then accelerate to silly speeds.


For missiles, however, I'm not aware of any sufficient lore explanation for either the velocity or range limits.
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#6 - 2012-06-16 05:31:17 UTC
in this case its unfortunately likely just purely a gameplay thing to keep a difference between heavy and cruise. all things considering 250km is not that long of a range for combat.

to give an idea, real world cruise missiles go from 1300-2500km maximum range. and can carry a 200kt nuclear device as a warhead.

I think at the end it all has to do with server load and game balance.

Actually if anybody has read any EVE novels do they keep action with in 250km? or is this a place where stories and lore can stand apart from gameplay restrictions?

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.

Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#7 - 2012-06-16 09:27:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
Considering that missiles are mostly a Caldari thing, I would say that absurdly long ranged missiles are of course perfectly doable. The problem is Rule of Aquision 34.

If missiles were given ranges in the hundreds or even thousands of kilometers then Caldari ships would do exactly that and only engage from the next planet over, which in turn would mean that no Caldari ships would ever be destroyed in combat, which in turn would lead to all the Caldari ship-building businesses quickly going bankrupt, and the Caldari will be damned if they ever let that happen for any reason.
Flair Tachyon
Toon Invasion Terror Squad
#8 - 2012-06-16 09:35:44 UTC
Another possible reason might be production cost and agillity.

Longer ranged missiles would require better guidance/scanner systems and more fuel/engines. Wich makes missiles a lot more expensive. More importantly, unless you have a covops missile you need to be somewhat close anyway as without tackle only structures would still be at the target area if missiles were incoming.

Also modern cruise missiles travel quiet slow (relative to air to air missiles) and are launched at stationary (or in case of ground vehicles comparatively slow) targets. Given that the moment MWD/AB is used on target ships they are relatively fast, the missile would need to keep to speeds it can still quickly adjust to evasive maneuvers of the target. The more momentum you build up, the more effort needs to be expended to quickly change heading.

In addition the more mass you carry on fuel/engine the less agile the missile gets.
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#9 - 2012-06-16 10:09:58 UTC
Silly me always sees things from a game-balance perspective. Either everyone would play Caldari, or no one would.

http://www.wormholes.info

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#10 - 2012-06-16 17:15:32 UTC
Wu Jiaqiu wrote:
Is it because a wizard is not allowing heavy missiles to travel too far?


No, the surrounding space of the cluster is different than the atmospheric conditions on earth.

Just as a bullet fired on the north pole would decrease altitude 60 feet per-second per-second faster than a bullet fired in death valley.

The only way to question this logic would be to fire a missile in New Eden, but as New Eden isn't real, my above logic will have to do for now.

This space for rent.

David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-06-18 10:12:58 UTC
Possible explanations:

• range is sacrificed for other features (since you can only fit so much into a missile)
• targeting tech can’t lock on to targets that are further away than 250km
• something about cosmic radiation interfering with the equipment when exposed too long or something
Matharos
Lost Creek Corporation
#12 - 2012-06-19 13:25:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Matharos
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:
in this case its unfortunately likely just purely a gameplay thing to keep a difference between heavy and cruise. all things considering 250km is not that long of a range for combat.

to give an idea, real world cruise missiles go from 1300-2500km maximum range. and can carry a 200kt nuclear device as a warhead.

I think at the end it all has to do with server load and game balance.

Actually if anybody has read any EVE novels do they keep action with in 250km? or is this a place where stories and lore can stand apart from gameplay restrictions?



The think to consider is flight time.

How long does it take for that missile to fly 1300 -2500 KM? By the time your missile reaches it the ship would have moved or could be gone. Ingame even interceptors can outrun some missiles.

For ship-to-ship combat you want your missiles getting to the target as quickly as possible.
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#13 - 2012-06-19 14:06:13 UTC
well normal RL cruise are sub-sonic powered by small turbofans.

which brings up a question, just what powers an EVE missile? I am thinking they are simply solid rocket fueled. once launched they go until it runs out or until it goes boom. Likely for safety they go boom at the end of a burn.

(And we will leave how ships/skills increase range to the magic of gameplay mechanics over logical lore unless simply stating its making the flight path to the target more efficient so less fuel is wasted getting a solid tracking lock.)

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.

Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#14 - 2012-06-21 11:48:37 UTC
The exact same can be applied to Minmitar Guns or Gallente Rails, ect. Because In space an object in motion stays in motion.
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-06-21 14:05:35 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
The exact same can be applied to Minmitar Guns or Gallente Rails, ect. Because In space an object in motion stays in motion.

No credit for partial answers, maggot!
Simon Heirmonious
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-06-21 14:53:16 UTC
Out of game reasons:
Game Ballance

In-game Reasons
- Warp drives shift space/time around the ships, causing strange mumbo-jumbo up to 250 KM away (it's how Directional Scans work, you just look for warped space/time)
- An ICBM of 1200 KM range IS NOT 0.05 m3 (size of Caldari Navy Cruise missiles), and does not travel 3.7 km/s
- Planets fear orbital bombardment. Take the Caldari and Caldari Prime as an example - I bet they wouldnt even talk to the gallente if the gallente didnt agree to prevent orbital bombardment with space-to-space weapons.
- Missiles are designed to be competitive with turret-based weaponry. They sacrifice payload and range for speed and accuracy, as well as easy cargo capacity.

Better questions would be why Lasers dont have infinite range.
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-06-21 18:33:13 UTC
Simon Heirmonious wrote:
Better questions would be why Lasers dont have infinite range.

That would actually be a worse question since the reason is relatively simple: Dispersion.
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-06-21 20:40:27 UTC
Wu Jiaqiu wrote:
Pottsey wrote:
Wu Jiaqiu wrote:
Is it because a wizard is not allowing heavy missiles to travel too far?

Eve is liquid space which is also why you lose speed once engines turn off. (please note facts posted might be 100% made up)


I actually thing I read about this somewhere...but never payed any attention to it. Is there something explaining liquid space in the lore?

I've never heard of it being explained in the lore. It's explained in the Evelopedia article on acceleration, which is written OOC, non-RP.
Rachel Silverside
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-06-22 11:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Rachel Silverside
David Toviyah wrote:
Simon Heirmonious wrote:
Better questions would be why Lasers dont have infinite range.

That would actually be a worse question since the reason is relatively simple: Dispersion.
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#20 - 2012-06-22 18:41:09 UTC
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:
in this case its unfortunately likely just purely a gameplay thing to keep a difference between heavy and cruise. all things considering 250km is not that long of a range for combat.

to give an idea, real world cruise missiles go from 1300-2500km maximum range. and can carry a 200kt nuclear device as a warhead.

I think at the end it all has to do with server load and game balance.

Actually if anybody has read any EVE novels do they keep action with in 250km? or is this a place where stories and lore can stand apart from gameplay restrictions?


RL cruise missiles do not carry nuclear payloads... they carry standard munitions.

ICBMs carry nuclear payloads. and even these are split in to MIRVs
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