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NECROED THREAD - LOCK IT

First post
Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#161 - 2012-06-19 11:02:06 UTC
Kortanil wrote:
I assume you have never done actual PvP.
I assume now know you have no argument since you have to go straight for the ad hominem (and be quite wrong to boot).

Quote:
Heh, of course it makes difference when people shoot at your ship
No, whether you can afford to yield or not makes no difference as far as there being a choice even though you're in a PvP situation. It may alter how you value your different options and which one you end up choosing, but it doesn't remove any options. You can always choose.

Quote:
It makes no difference whether you sell your items first or I do, either way the next time I log in the money is in the account.
…unless you keep getting beaten because you're not putting up a fight.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-06-19 11:05:15 UTC
Alain Kinsella wrote:
Drones on rock #4.

D'oh. Forgot about those. It's been a few years since I bothered to mine last, is my excuse.

Kortanil wrote:
I assume you have never done actual PvP.

I've no idea why you'd bring this onto the table, at all.

Kortanil wrote:
I don't have problem targeting another asteroid, we can even mine from the same one for a while.

The first one to get off a cycle, gets the content. Player vs player competition.

Kortanil wrote:
I can undercut you with 0.01 ISK, it's not a big financial loss is it?

And I can undercut you with 0.01 ISK to the point where you never get to sell your stuff, because I'm always the "preferred buy/seller order". Player vs player competition.

Kortanil wrote:
And when I am off-line and you or someone else are going to undercut me anyway, your items will sell first then mine either way after I log in I get the money, I can afford to get undercut.

You're still competing against other players.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#163 - 2012-06-19 11:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ituhata Saken
I just woke up here and kinda scrolled through, just pointing out market pvp doesn't necessarily occur between the buyer and seller. The sellers actively compete with other sellers and the buyers unwittingly compete with other buyers for the lowest price.

EDIT:
Quote:

And I can undercut you with 0.01 ISK to the point where you never get to sell your stuff, because I'm always the "preferred buy/seller order". Player vs player competition.


I actually had to take a bunch of tags off the market and move them to another system because I've been getting undercut for days, quite ridiculously, by 500k.

So close...

Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#164 - 2012-06-19 12:17:58 UTC
I ran out of milk just now so I went to the shops. There was some ************ in front of me in the queue, so I was all like "hey fucknuts, you're making me spend more time here, I could be making money instead", so I slapped him down and went to pay for my stuff. Woman at the counter tells me "that's £1.50 please" and I'm all like "the ****? are you ******* with me? I know your game, you're trying to take all my money and leave me with jack ****", so I punched her in the face and go to leave. On my way out, I notice this woman sneakily trying to put some fruit in her basket. Weeellll... ***** ain't getting ME with that asset denial bullshit. After I finished teabagging her, I went home, had a coffee and laughed at all the sociopaths on the Eve forums for a while. Idiots.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#165 - 2012-06-19 12:26:50 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
I ran out of milk just now so I went to the shops. There was some ************ in front of me in the queue, so I was all like "hey fucknuts, you're making me spend more time here, I could be making money instead", so I slapped him down and went to pay for my stuff. Woman at the counter tells me "that's £1.50 please" and I'm all like "the ****? are you ******* with me? I know your game, you're trying to take all my money and leave me with jack ****", so I punched her in the face and go to leave. On my way out, I notice this woman sneakily trying to put some fruit in her basket. Weeellll... ***** ain't getting ME with that asset denial bullshit. After I finished teabagging her, I went home, had a coffee and laughed at all the sociopaths on the Eve forums for a while. Idiots.



Outstanding. Drop by our public channel and let's talk recruitment.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#166 - 2012-06-19 12:27:33 UTC
PS it would have been better if you'd suicide-bombed a milk truck as well, but nvm we can work on improvements.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#167 - 2012-06-19 12:29:38 UTC
Kortanil wrote:
actual PvP.


HEH
Effect One
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#168 - 2012-06-19 12:38:29 UTC
Topics like these make me wonder why I even bother reading these forums instead of doing my work sometimes.

'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon

Dante Chusuk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#169 - 2012-06-19 12:45:26 UTC
Kortanil wrote:

It makes no difference whether you sell your items first or I do, either way the next time I log in the money is in the account.


Have to agree with Tippia and Lord Zim on this one, I'd like to see what the person trying to sell 25 Taloses in the system my market alt works in thinks of your thoughts on this as he hasn't sold any of them in the last two weeks while my alt has sold all his stock and has another 10 ready to put up ... Is he logging back in to money in his wallet? Nope. Are others? Yes there are a few who undercut my alt by silly amounts (we're talking 5-6M) who post up one ship at a time, I'll let them sell that one ship and then it's my alt up again as preferred seller at the price I want to sell at.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#170 - 2012-06-19 12:53:38 UTC
Why not buy those ships and resell them? Should be easy money then, you don't even have to move them.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Doc Mulder
Doomheim
#171 - 2012-06-19 12:55:15 UTC
Taranius De Consolville wrote:
No doubt this will get trolled by every forum idiot but the point is valid

The point is stupid. And of course, EVERYONE who disagrees with you must be an idiot? Petulant child...

Quote:
PvP pilots need to sod off back to null sec and leave empire pilots alone to there own business.

Period.

Nope, no period. We gonna do as we please until and unless CCP changes the game mechanics to stop us.

Period
Kortanil
Virtual Space Exploration
#172 - 2012-06-19 14:52:41 UTC
Dante Chusuk wrote:
Kortanil wrote:

It makes no difference whether you sell your items first or I do, either way the next time I log in the money is in the account.


Have to agree with Tippia and Lord Zim on this one, I'd like to see what the person trying to sell 25 Taloses in the system my market alt works in thinks of your thoughts on this as he hasn't sold any of them in the last two weeks while my alt has sold all his stock and has another 10 ready to put up ... Is he logging back in to money in his wallet? Nope. Are others? Yes there are a few who undercut my alt by silly amounts (we're talking 5-6M) who post up one ship at a time, I'll let them sell that one ship and then it's my alt up again as preferred seller at the price I want to sell at.


Has it ever occured that it could be an NPC selling them just like those that sell books, ammo, ships in general and the basic mods, all of those that are on a 80+ days waiting list, just so there are items of that kind in case nobody has bothered to manufacture them? Good job on undercutting an NPC and screwing up it's business.

As for you still getting your ships sold even after someone undercuts you with one item. That is exactly what I was talking about. Good job on proving my point.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2012-06-19 15:01:50 UTC
Kortanil wrote:
As for you still getting your ships sold even after someone undercuts you with one item. That is exactly what I was talking about. Good job on proving my point.

You really don't get this whole PVP thing, do you?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#174 - 2012-06-19 15:04:57 UTC
Kortanil wrote:
Dante Chusuk wrote:
Kortanil wrote:

It makes no difference whether you sell your items first or I do, either way the next time I log in the money is in the account.


Have to agree with Tippia and Lord Zim on this one, I'd like to see what the person trying to sell 25 Taloses in the system my market alt works in thinks of your thoughts on this as he hasn't sold any of them in the last two weeks while my alt has sold all his stock and has another 10 ready to put up ... Is he logging back in to money in his wallet? Nope. Are others? Yes there are a few who undercut my alt by silly amounts (we're talking 5-6M) who post up one ship at a time, I'll let them sell that one ship and then it's my alt up again as preferred seller at the price I want to sell at.


Has it ever occured that it could be an NPC selling them just like those that sell books, ammo, ships in general and the basic mods, all of those that are on a 80+ days waiting list, just so there are items of that kind in case nobody has bothered to manufacture them? Good job on undercutting an NPC and screwing up it's business.

As for you still getting your ships sold even after someone undercuts you with one item. That is exactly what I was talking about. Good job on proving my point.


You haven't proved anything other than he understands how the market works. Just FYI there are very few NPC vendors, mostly in starter systems, and none of them will be undercutting you on the market.

As far as the other, you get missioners who don't play or don't know how to play that throw an item up under an actual trader who has quantity. The prevailing thought in my mind is by severely undercutting an actual trader will come along and buy it up to resell at his market sell price for profit, which works fine for me becaues i get paid fast. OR some lucky guy who actually needs it stumbles upon it and gets a great deal. Onsies aside, your wallet will not blink when you finally run into real market competition, if they put 25+ of the same item up for .01 isk less than yours, good luck selling because that's going to continue to happen unless you actively play the game and start an isk war.

Or you know, you could just give up and sell your stock to the guy for substantially less.

So close...

Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#175 - 2012-06-19 15:12:57 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
Kortanil wrote:
Dante Chusuk wrote:
Kortanil wrote:

It makes no difference whether you sell your items first or I do, either way the next time I log in the money is in the account.


Have to agree with Tippia and Lord Zim on this one, I'd like to see what the person trying to sell 25 Taloses in the system my market alt works in thinks of your thoughts on this as he hasn't sold any of them in the last two weeks while my alt has sold all his stock and has another 10 ready to put up ... Is he logging back in to money in his wallet? Nope. Are others? Yes there are a few who undercut my alt by silly amounts (we're talking 5-6M) who post up one ship at a time, I'll let them sell that one ship and then it's my alt up again as preferred seller at the price I want to sell at.


Has it ever occured that it could be an NPC selling them just like those that sell books, ammo, ships in general and the basic mods, all of those that are on a 80+ days waiting list, just so there are items of that kind in case nobody has bothered to manufacture them? Good job on undercutting an NPC and screwing up it's business.

As for you still getting your ships sold even after someone undercuts you with one item. That is exactly what I was talking about. Good job on proving my point.


You haven't proved anything other than he understands how the market works. Just FYI there are very few NPC vendors, mostly in starter systems, and none of them will be undercutting you on the market.

As far as the other, you get missioners who don't play or don't know how to play that throw an item up under an actual trader who has quantity. The prevailing thought in my mind is by severely undercutting an actual trader will come along and buy it up to resell at his market sell price for profit, which works fine for me becaues i get paid fast. OR some lucky guy who actually needs it stumbles upon it and gets a great deal. Onsies aside, your wallet will not blink when you finally run into real market competition, if they put 25+ of the same item up for .01 isk less than yours, good luck selling because that's going to continue to happen unless you actively play the game and start an isk war.

Or you know, you could just give up and sell your stock to the guy for substantially less.


This. I super undercut the market constantly, because I don't pay attention to it enough to really know how fast items move; so I undercut to get the traders to buy it.

Works well in my opinion, I'm not sitting on inventory I don't want, traders get a unit or 2 they can sell with great margins...

James315 for CSM 8!

Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#176 - 2012-06-19 15:22:24 UTC
Kortanil wrote:
Ra Jackson wrote:
Kortanil wrote:
All I do is PvE, as of right now. I don't need the PvP-ers (my definition of PvP not yours) to do what I do. Maybe some of the items I bought came from PvP, someone got killed their wreck looted and the items ended up on the market, no problem those items or their equivalents can always be obtained from doing PvE one way or another. In fact if I choose to I don't even have to use the market for anything I need.


Fair enough. And to be even safer, you could go and play on the testserver. No PVP except for one nulsec system.
Sounds like fun, right?


If I am going to play on a test server I shouldn't be paying then.

Now because I have chosen not to PvP, yet, it doesn't mean I don't want to completely avoid interacting with other players, I would assume helping others or asking others for help me so they or I respectively can progress in the game faster is not considered PvP even in the broadest possible definition, is it? After all I am not competing with that Player, I am helping them or they are helping me. Also since when talking to others is a form of PvP? Are these the PvP forums? I think not. It says "General discussion".



You do not appear to understand the definition of PvP as it relates to this game. It means Player vs Player. Unless you mine alone in a belt with no-one else present, refining those minerals to build a ship for yourself and never ever have any interaction with any other player in the game, then you are partaking in PvP. Whenever you buy or sell anything to someone on the market, that's PvP, whenever you attempt to get to a resource before another player, that's PvP.

Whether you can accept these facts is up to you, nothing you say or do however, will change those facts.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#177 - 2012-06-19 15:25:26 UTC
I propose that from here on out, since people are using PvP as a verb, they need to include a noun or adverb.

None of this, "I don't pvp." You might was well say, "I don't shoot."

You don't shoot what? Guns? Movies? Photos? Spit wads?

Kortanil
Virtual Space Exploration
#178 - 2012-06-19 16:01:32 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Kortanil wrote:
Ra Jackson wrote:
Kortanil wrote:
All I do is PvE, as of right now. I don't need the PvP-ers (my definition of PvP not yours) to do what I do. Maybe some of the items I bought came from PvP, someone got killed their wreck looted and the items ended up on the market, no problem those items or their equivalents can always be obtained from doing PvE one way or another. In fact if I choose to I don't even have to use the market for anything I need.


Fair enough. And to be even safer, you could go and play on the testserver. No PVP except for one nulsec system.
Sounds like fun, right?


If I am going to play on a test server I shouldn't be paying then.

Now because I have chosen not to PvP, yet, it doesn't mean I don't want to completely avoid interacting with other players, I would assume helping others or asking others for help me so they or I respectively can progress in the game faster is not considered PvP even in the broadest possible definition, is it? After all I am not competing with that Player, I am helping them or they are helping me. Also since when talking to others is a form of PvP? Are these the PvP forums? I think not. It says "General discussion".



You do not appear to understand the definition of PvP as it relates to this game. It means Player vs Player. Unless you mine alone in a belt with no-one else present, refining those minerals to build a ship for yourself and never ever have any interaction with any other player in the game, then you are partaking in PvP. Whenever you buy or sell anything to someone on the market, that's PvP, whenever you attempt to get to a resource before another player, that's PvP.

Whether you can accept these facts is up to you, nothing you say or do however, will change those facts.


Then I must be very good at EVE's pvp since I always sell the items I want to sell and very quick at that, well except that ship I had in Amarr 18 jumps away, cough, it was too pricey, nobody bought it, eventually expired and was taken off the market, but that's one out of the many thousands I have sold, so it's like 99.99:0.01, a pretty good ratio for PvP don't you think? The best part is I can always go there, change the price, or even sell it to the first buyer and make it the perfect 100% win ratio, I think in that case I deserve to get a title for getting a perfect 100% sell record, like "Master of Trade PvP" or something. After all I have to put some effort to get that record, I mean flying through 18 gates is a big F deal, it requires a lot of work and planning, I have to check item prices, number of items, how long the order has been on the market, all that kinds of trade PvP stuff.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#179 - 2012-06-19 16:08:43 UTC
Quote:
The best part is I can always go there, change the price, or even sell it to the first buyer and make it the perfect 100% win ratio


So you have a near perfect ratio because you take what the market buyers are willing to give you rather than setting your own price point. Those buyers typically turn around and sell for a considerably higher price, and it sounds like even when you sell on the market you undercut severely enough that your items get bought up by the trades to resell anyway. Sounds like winning at severely reduced pay to me.

So close...

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2012-06-19 16:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Yeah, Kortanil really doesn't get this whole PVP deal. That's okay, not everyone gets eve.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat