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Question to the pve community
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2012-06-19 05:23:57 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
In a strictly PvP game, this wouldn't even be an issue. There would be no PvE in a strictly PvP game. We would be buying seeded ships that we unlock through PvP. I get 2000 kills I unlock Zealot. I get 5000 kills I unlock Absolution.
…or they'd make the ship creation PvP as well, much like what they did in EVE.

Quote:
Now that we have concluded EVE isn't a 'strictly PvP game' you sound like a babbling idiot. Fail troll has failed.
Try again.
…except, of course, that we haven't concluded that since you haven't really provided an example of something that isn't PvP.
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-06-19 05:32:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sisohiv
Tippia wrote:
Sisohiv wrote:
In a strictly PvP game, this wouldn't even be an issue. There would be no PvE in a strictly PvP game. We would be buying seeded ships that we unlock through PvP. I get 2000 kills I unlock Zealot. I get 5000 kills I unlock Absolution.


…or they'd make the ship creation PvP as well, much like what they did in EVE.



No

This thread is now about Tippia and the bickering title on the forums.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#43 - 2012-06-19 05:35:32 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:

So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions?


In a strictly PvP game, this wouldn't even be an issue. There would be no PvE in a strictly PvP game. We would be buying seeded ships that we unlock through PvP. I get 2000 kills I unlock Zealot. I get 5000 kills I unlock Absolution.

Now that we have concluded EVE isn't a 'strictly PvP game' you sound like a babbling idiot. Fail troll has failed.
Try again.


PvP in EvE is any time player action gets in the way of what someone else wants.
Wanna get somewhere, someone blows you up > PvP
Wanna get a free ship, someone charges you for it > PvP
Wanna get Isk for your mins, someone undercuts you > PvP
Etc. Etc. Etc.

There is no activity in EvE that doesn't impact another player (beside shipspinning).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Malacath Azaria
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-06-19 05:36:23 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sisohiv wrote:
In a strictly PvP game, this wouldn't even be an issue. There would be no PvE in a strictly PvP game. We would be buying seeded ships that we unlock through PvP. I get 2000 kills I unlock Zealot. I get 5000 kills I unlock Absolution.


…or they'd make the ship creation PvP as well, much like what they did in EVE.



No


Please give us a detailed description on an in-game activity that is PvE only & does not have anything to do with PvP.
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-06-19 05:38:16 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Sisohiv wrote:
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:

So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions?


In a strictly PvP game, this wouldn't even be an issue. There would be no PvE in a strictly PvP game. We would be buying seeded ships that we unlock through PvP. I get 2000 kills I unlock Zealot. I get 5000 kills I unlock Absolution.

Now that we have concluded EVE isn't a 'strictly PvP game' you sound like a babbling idiot. Fail troll has failed.
Try again.


PvP in EvE is any time player action gets in the way of what someone else wants.
Wanna get somewhere, someone blows you up > PvP
Wanna get a free ship, someone charges you for it > PvP
Wanna get Isk for your mins, someone undercuts you > PvP
Etc. Etc. Etc.

There is no activity in EvE that doesn't impact another player (beside shipspinning).


PvP provides barriers for the sake of barriers. It doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of Industry. That is pure 100% PvE (in a strictly PvP game)
Malacath Azaria
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-06-19 05:41:56 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Sisohiv wrote:
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:

So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions?


In a strictly PvP game, this wouldn't even be an issue. There would be no PvE in a strictly PvP game. We would be buying seeded ships that we unlock through PvP. I get 2000 kills I unlock Zealot. I get 5000 kills I unlock Absolution.

Now that we have concluded EVE isn't a 'strictly PvP game' you sound like a babbling idiot. Fail troll has failed.
Try again.


PvP in EvE is any time player action gets in the way of what someone else wants.
Wanna get somewhere, someone blows you up > PvP
Wanna get a free ship, someone charges you for it > PvP
Wanna get Isk for your mins, someone undercuts you > PvP
Etc. Etc. Etc.

There is no activity in EvE that doesn't impact another player (beside shipspinning).


PvP provides barriers for the sake of barriers. It doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of Industry. That is pure 100% PvE (in a strictly PvP game)


Please explain why you believe that Industry is pure PvE.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2012-06-19 05:42:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Sisohiv wrote:
PvP provides barriers for the sake of barriers. It doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of Industry. That is pure 100% PvE (in a strictly PvP game)
So… what environment are you fighting against when you're doing industry, again?

Quote:
No
Sure they could. Not only that — they did do it. Fancy that.
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-06-19 05:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sisohiv
Tippia wrote:
Sisohiv wrote:
PvP provides barriers for the sake of barriers. It doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of Industry. That is pure 100% PvE (in a strictly PvP game)
So… what environment are you fighting against when you're doing industry, again?



What player am I fighting against when I do Industry? Player vs Player? How so? Everything is in the environment from seeded blueprints to spawned materials and they are all infinite. Where is there a demand to compete?

What player did I compete with to take a mission? Are we on a limited number? Can an agent only offer 100 missions a day so I have to fight for them?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2012-06-19 06:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Sisohiv wrote:
What player am I fighting against when I do Industry?
All other industrialists producing the same thing.

Quote:
Everything is in the environment from seeded blueprints to spawned materials and they are all infinite.
…except, of course, that the materials are far from infinite — they're limited to their respawn/rebuild rate — and that the blueprints (which are actually given player-influenced prices) require a fair bit of research to become useful (using limited industry slots subject to PvP competition). There is nothing PvE about industry. Nothing in the industrial environment offers any resistance.

So I'll ask you again since you couldn't answer the first time: what environment are you fighting against when you're doing industry?

Quote:
What player did I compete with to take a mission?
The ones who come and steal your loot and compete for the salvage and mission completion items.


Oh, and one more thing: what is the reason for doing industry and missions?
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-06-19 06:28:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sisohiv wrote:
What player am I fighting against when I do Industry?
All other industrialists producing the same thing.

Quote:
Everything is in the environment from seeded blueprints to spawned materials and they are all infinite.
…except, of course, that the materials are far from infinite — they're limited to their respawn/rebuild rate — and that the blueprints (which are actually given player-influenced prices) require a fair bit of research to become useful (using limited industry slots subject to PvP competition). There is nothing PvE about industry. Nothing in the industrial environment offers any resistance.

So I'll ask you again since you couldn't answer the first time: what environment are you fighting against when you're doing industry?

Quote:
What player did I compete with to take a mission?
The ones who come and steal your loot and compete for the salvage and mission completion items.


Oh, and one more thing: what is the reason for doing industry and missions?


This is your EVE PvP. Bickering and nit picking mundane details.

Your ability to nag doesn't make you right but I can't be bothered to argue with you anymore. You win the forum? I guess that makes it PvP somehow because there was more than one person involved?

I've never competed for anything in this game. It's that simple. Nobody has ever "stole my loot" or salvaged my wrecks or blew up my Hulk or kept me from running a mission. In 6 years, I have lost 1 ship. A frigate, while doing a level 4 I shouldn't have been doing in a frigate. Done for the lulz.. I've played for 6 years off and on, watched you nit pickers on the forums go on about a game that doesn't exist. Back in EVE the game, its mostly PvE with no motive or purpose other than to bore you out of your mind in hopes you will fight with other people for some reason we invent in our minds.

I can and have gone on the test server, built stations, Titans and super carriers, made Corps, alliances and claimed Sov. All with absolutely No PvP because PvP is not an accomplishment in EVE. It's a barrier and not a very good one.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#51 - 2012-06-19 06:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Sisohiv wrote:
Your ability to nag doesn't make you right
No. What makes me right is the fact that pretty much everything in EVE is PvP by design. In everything you do, you are facing competition from other players.

The game is centred around a marketplace where some of the most vicious PvP happens. This marketplace is fed by a competitive (PvP) industry sector where players compete over resources and production facilities. The marketplace, in turn, feeds the continuous (PvP) war where all those products go to get blow up. Conversely, the (PvP) combat generates the demand that keeps the industry going and gives them a reason to provide that constant supply of goods: no combat = no demand = no industry = no market = no game.

Quote:
I've never competed for anything in this game.
Yes you have. You just haven't bothered to try to win any of those engagements, and have just accepted the scraps left for you.

Quote:
I can and have gone on the test server, built stations, Titans and super carriers, made Corps, alliances and claimed Sov. All with absolutely No PvP because…
…the test server is set up to provide all those things that wouldn't exist without PvP (because non-consensual PvP is semi-banned there since it would otherwise interfere with the testing of some mechanics, and that would rather ruin the point of having a test server). The reason it wasn't an accomplishment was because it was on the test server where there was no PvP to stop you (and obviously no PvE either since EVE doesn't offer any obstacles based on PvE).

On the real server, PvP isn't a barrier — it's the driving force of the game, without which nothing would ever happen.

By the way, you didn't answer the question: what environment are you fighting against when you're doing industry?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#52 - 2012-06-19 06:42:25 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sisohiv wrote:
PvP provides barriers for the sake of barriers. It doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of Industry. That is pure 100% PvE (in a strictly PvP game)
So… what environment are you fighting against when you're doing industry, again?



What player am I fighting against when I do Industry?


Do you sell anything you produce? Do you buy any player produced materials? Do you use limited production slots in a station? Do you use limited research slots in a station? Have you claimed one of the limited number of hi-sec moons for a POS? Have you moved valuable materials and items through space? Have you sold BPCs?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#53 - 2012-06-19 07:17:30 UTC
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Xavier Bandar wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Edit: If you set a fishing pole and then sit beside it and read, are you really fishing?


Depends. If you do it in Somalia, you might get kidnapped and ransomed by some warlord or just get shot in the face with an AK-47.


Luckily, EvE is not nearly so safe as Somalia.


If anything Somalia learned from EvE players.


then the russian navy comes along... lol
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#54 - 2012-06-19 07:52:35 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
I've never competed for anything in this game.


Have you never mined? Have you never built items for sale on the market? Have you never engaged in market speculation?

Even if you are not actively mining rocks out from under other miners, you are still engaged in PVP. The rocks have a respawn rate: their supply is only infinite if you have infinite time. If you mine a belt out this hour, the miners who come to that belt next hour will have nothing to mine. You are always competing for limited resources, except when running missions (though I could conceivably probe you down and run your mission for you, claiming all your bounties, loot and salvage).

As for miners complaining about PvP: the main complaint I have seen is not that Hulks are getting blown up, it is that it is too easy to blow hulks up when they are being used for their intended purpose. That can be resolved with higher agility and about 10MW more PG. No doubling of EHP, just the ability to fit a reasonable tank without resorting to an MAPC when the pilot has all-5s, and the ability to get out of the belt quickly when danger approaches.

Yes, there are folks who want to be perfectly safe in hisec, just as there are people who think it is possible to force players to take their characters into lowsec. There are fools all around us.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#55 - 2012-06-19 10:04:14 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:


I have heard a lot of pve miners who say to leave them alone in mining in high sec. Stating that mining in high sec is a easy to to play without playing. Having heard someone once state " mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework".I have read many statements just like that. Where people want to have an area where they can afk or not have to pay little attention to there game while they progress at the task at hand.




Here's another mind bender. If you are afk mining, are you really playing the game?



If a Hulk dies in Ammatar space, does CONCORD hear the death knell?

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
RAP ACTION HERO
#56 - 2012-06-19 10:32:02 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
..........

So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions?


Please state your source for Eve being a strictly pvp game.

Edit: If you set a fishing pole and then sit beside it and read, are you really fishing?


it's not a pvp game but you can't escape surprise pvp deal with it.

vitoc erryday
Josef Djugashvilis
#57 - 2012-06-19 11:02:37 UTC
I should like to take this opportunity to thank the op for starting this startlingly original thread.

Why has no one else ever brought this mind-numbingly boring topic up before?

This is not a signature.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-06-19 11:04:19 UTC
Just wanted to say that i've noticed that people seem to believe that:

What i'm not doing intentionally, i'm not doing. There are no side effects.
There's no subconscious thought driving me (ever),
and there's nothing meta about anything i do, ever.

TL;DR:
I'm ignorant about my influence on my environment.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#59 - 2012-06-19 11:12:12 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
I can't speak for many other MMOs, because short of FFXI and Warhammer Online, I really haven't messed with too many other MMOs. I do know two things though...1) Eve is the ONLY MMO I have played where it is possible to play AFK legitimately (or at least mine, I have no idea how anyone can do anything else AFK and get anything accomplished), and 2) Every MMO I have played has a sect of players who want the E-Z Mode, as in wanting other players handed to them with a minimum of work performed.


You can AFK level up in Warhammer Online just fine.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#60 - 2012-06-19 11:14:07 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Just wanted to say that i've noticed that people seem to believe that:

What i'm not doing intentionally, i'm not doing. There are no side effects.
There's no subconscious thought driving me (ever),
and there's nothing meta about anything i do, ever.

TL;DR:
I'm ignorant about my influence on my environment.


I believe a rock is also ignorant of its influence on its environment.....oh god, you know what a rock is? An environment! Guys, guys! I found the environment everyone is competing against!

So close...