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Factional Warfare needs to be nerfed
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Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2012-06-17 19:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
SAA Legis wrote:
FW doesn't introduce ISK into EVE. There's no printing. In fact, it's an ISK sink. When you get an implant off the store for LP+ISK, you remove ISK from the game, reducing inflation.

FW is an ISK redistributor. Players with lots of ISK are willing to pay for the LP store stuff. Who are they? Maybe ex-incursion runners. Maybe sanctum runners. Maybe L4 blitzers. Maybe moon goo rich goons. Maybe PLEX sellers. Maybe market speculators. At any rate, they are people who have more billions than you do, and who more often than not got their billions with just as little work as you do now.


Once again I have to tell you...

Quote:
You're nitpicking the less meaningful parts of my OP instead of the good stuff.


Yes, I try to bring up the economic aspects of FW to better explain the impacts of the PvE elements of FW distracting many players from the PvP elements of FW. The fact that people can get rich off FW is reducing the overall amount of PVP in FW and this is most likely unintended as FW is supposed to encourage PVP, not ISK-making. What part of this do you not understand?


However I have heard many people say "But all of the ISK-making makes more people afford more ships so doesn't that result in more pvp?". This is both correct and incorrect.

I agree that FW should net you at least some ISK... just not as much as it is right now. If the profits of FW were cut by 50% or even 75% (which is my preference) it would be acceptable and most people would be able to make enough ISK to afford anything but 100m+ ships (Battleships in general) per day. Anyone who complains about not making enough ISK in FW is either not playing enough or flying ships that are too expensive. The phrase "dont fly what you cant afford to lose" goes without saying here except with an emphasis of "dont fly what you cant afford to lose over and over in a day" as these things have to be a combination of short-term and long-term, more like planning your budget on what ships you can fly in the next week so you can afford more ships the next week.

I disagree that FW netting people a ton of ISK increases PVP. You have to look at the side effects. No one wants to warp into a minor plex just to see a speedtanker warp off most of the time. This is incredibly frustrating. I haven't exactly experienced this myself but I am always that speedtanker who warps off and believe me, those people get frustrated. I often try to sign them up to support my cause and quite a few of them posted in this thread because of me. I even give them a small amount of ISK to express my goodwill and legitimacy.

The other side effect is that people like me... we're building up capital so when this ISK printing machine gets shut down I will have plenty of funding for future PVP, FW-related or not. Therefore we are not pvping right now, we are focused on making ISK and plenty of it so we can PVP more later. Why PVP now when you can make a lot of ISK and PVP even more in the future?

.
Aya Hekki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2012-06-17 20:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aya Hekki
Private Pineapple wrote:
SAA Legis wrote:
FW doesn't introduce ISK into EVE. There's no printing. In fact, it's an ISK sink. When you get an implant off the store for LP+ISK, you remove ISK from the game, reducing inflation.

FW is an ISK redistributor. Players with lots of ISK are willing to pay for the LP store stuff. Who are they? Maybe ex-incursion runners. Maybe sanctum runners. Maybe L4 blitzers. Maybe moon goo rich goons. Maybe PLEX sellers. Maybe market speculators. At any rate, they are people who have more billions than you do, and who more often than not got their billions with just as little work as you do now.


Once again I have to tell you...

Quote:
You're nitpicking the less meaningful parts of my OP instead of the good stuff.


Yes, I try to bring up the economic aspects of FW to better explain the impacts of the PvE elements of FW distracting many players from the PvP elements of FW. The fact that people can get rich off FW is reducing the overall amount of PVP in FW and this is most likely unintended as FW is supposed to encourage PVP. What part of this do you not understand?


looks like you are the one that doesn't understand here, are you saying that the riches of null sec are distracting from the pvp?
it is the exact same thing over here, if you want to get rich .. win FW and crush the opposing forces, so it is really an intended thing.

the thing that is not intended is the NPC unbalance (which they are addressing soon) .. not the amount of isk making, and i can tell you right now that the Minmatar worked dam hard to get to this point, and i can also tell you without a doubt that the Amarr can and will change the tide pretty soon.

another problem here is the new leeching accounts,... the requirement to join the FW that was just decreased to 0.0 should actually get higher to like 1~2 or something or maybe even higher.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-06-17 20:36:02 UTC
crushing the forces?

Minmattar were basicly given t4 from the get go, so get a clue plz

theres no crushing, pvp is now sliding down to lower than pre patch levels while any tom **** or harry can put an alt into minm and sponge the lp/isk - while making it near impossible to make anything fighting back in any way for the other side.

winmatar: working as intended

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#104 - 2012-06-17 20:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
Aya Hekki wrote:
if you want to get rich .. win FW and crush the opposing forces, so it is really an intended thing.


Crush the opposing forces? You mean "speedtank their complexes!". There is no crushing here.

Aya Hekki wrote:
i can tell you right now that the Minmatar worked dam hard to get to this point


Yes, speedtanking their complexes back when it only took 5-6 hours to capture a system is very hard. An amazing effort on their behalf, truly. I am so shaken with awe at how much "work" they have put in the old FW system to get to where they are in the new FW system.

Aya Hekki wrote:
i can also tell you without a doubt that the Amarr can and will change the tide pretty soon.


Hmm... no. Compared to the old FW system it takes 5-6 times longer to capture a system. Do you realliy believe they will "change the tide very soon"?

Aya Hekki wrote:
another problem here is the new leeching accounts,... the requirement to join the FW that was just decreased to 0.0 should actually get higher to like 1~2 or something or maybe even higher.


This won't solve anything except result in a lesser amount of [younger] people participating in FW. They reduced the requirements to join a militia so more people would participate. CCP were hoping that this change would result in more PVP, but alas... other changes rendered that change useless anyways.

Also, 1-2 standings is not that hard to get.

.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-06-17 21:04:03 UTC
Its a bit crazy of ccp.

No system resets
No docking in taken systems
No isk for the loosing side (mining veld is more profitable per hour)
No reward for defending systems
No challenge/change in plexes
No/little point in doing missions

Why would anyone wanting to participate in fw join a losing side?

CCP im sure you wont be doing anything for 6 months, you listened to the guys saying do somthing with fw, and this is what you came up with and let pass even though you were warned many many times it would work out this way.

The fact that some stores have far more valuable equipment just compounds the issue for certain sides.

Id love to get minmatarr LP for killing minnies in pvp however, that would be sweet.


Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Aya Hekki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-06-17 21:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Aya Hekki
Yep, dont even try to deny it muad, and seriously no fights? get out of sis auga pocket, i never see you anywhere out of these 3 systems, and you will get fights, pathetic..... I actually didnt read your full post because the cry is getting strong with you it is clouding your views

and pine, i will stop arguing with you right here, obviously you are new to FW and have absolutely no idea what was goinon pre-inferno.
Keep on crying Pirate

Aya out.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2012-06-17 21:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
Aya Hekki wrote:
Yep, dont even try to deny it muad, and seriously no fights? get out of sis auga pocket, i never see you anywhere out of these 3 systems, and you will get fights, pathetic..... I actually didnt read your full post because the cry is getting strong with you it is clouding your views

and pine, i will stop arguing with you right here, obviously you are new to FW and have absolutely no idea what was goinon pre-inferno.
Keep on crying Pirate

Aya out.


All I see are tears from a person who is pretty upset I am threatening to stop his way of making ISK. I don't care what happened in pre-Inferno FW, I care about the issues of present-Inferno FW.

.
Aya Hekki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-06-17 22:06:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Aya Hekki
Private Pineapple wrote:
Aya Hekki wrote:
Yep, dont even try to deny it muad, and seriously no fights? get out of sis auga pocket, i never see you anywhere out of these 3 systems, and you will get fights, pathetic..... I actually didnt read your full post because the cry is getting strong with you it is clouding your views

and pine, i will stop arguing with you right here, obviously you are new to FW and have absolutely no idea what was goinon pre-inferno.
Keep on crying Pirate

Aya out.


All I see are tears from a person who is pretty upset I am threatening to stop his way of making ISK. I don't care what happened in pre-Inferno FW, I care about the issues of present-Inferno FW.


well if you haven't noticed mister smarty i suggested the LP system to be removed entirely earlier, i dont care one bit about that ****, you are not threatening me or anyone actually, you are just fooling yourself thinking you are the hero of salvation or something, so yeah i will keep my word this time and will stop bothering....

oh and if you dont care what happened pre-inferno, then dont quote me and state your non existent view about it, understand?

auto notice disabled.
Aya really out Big smile
001100110011
00110011001100
#109 - 2012-06-17 22:38:43 UTC
So how can i join the Minmatar FW?
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2012-06-17 23:42:45 UTC
Aya Hekki wrote:
Private Pineapple wrote:
Aya Hekki wrote:
Yep, dont even try to deny it muad, and seriously no fights? get out of sis auga pocket, i never see you anywhere out of these 3 systems, and you will get fights, pathetic..... I actually didnt read your full post because the cry is getting strong with you it is clouding your views

and pine, i will stop arguing with you right here, obviously you are new to FW and have absolutely no idea what was goinon pre-inferno.
Keep on crying Pirate

Aya out.


All I see are tears from a person who is pretty upset I am threatening to stop his way of making ISK. I don't care what happened in pre-Inferno FW, I care about the issues of present-Inferno FW.


well if you haven't noticed mister smarty i suggested the LP system to be removed entirely earlier, i dont care one bit about that ****, you are not threatening me or anyone actually, you are just fooling yourself thinking you are the hero of salvation or something, so yeah i will keep my word this time and will stop bothering....

oh and if you dont care what happened pre-inferno, then dont quote me and state your non existent view about it, understand?

auto notice disabled.
Aya really out Big smile


Oh no no, I do agree with your 4 points. Maybe I should've clarified that, but you're "going to the other side" by arguing with me about the economics of FW as well as agreeing with a troll who can only nitpick at my posts just because I don't use the correct jargon (even though via semantics he knew perfectly well what I was talking about and could've mentally switched in the correct jargon).

You are a troll.

.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2012-06-18 11:20:25 UTC
001100110011 wrote:
So how can i join the Minmatar FW?


Go to any Tribal LiberationFactory or whatever it is station in Minmatar space.

Click Militia Office icon in station services tab.

Click 'Enlist Me!'.

.
xxxAmanda PhucKxxx
Doomheim
#112 - 2012-06-18 15:43:37 UTC
So do you just go in and speedtank it and get LP, sorry iam a noob?
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2012-06-18 15:53:39 UTC
xxxAmanda PhucKxxx wrote:
So do you just go in and speedtank it and get LP, sorry iam a noob?


Yes.

.
xxxAmanda PhucKxxx
Doomheim
#114 - 2012-06-18 22:04:43 UTC
Private Pineapple wrote:
xxxAmanda PhucKxxx wrote:
So do you just go in and speedtank it and get LP, sorry iam a noob?


Yes.

Thanks for letting me know about this great service sir i will be joning to speed tank them all, but where should i start?
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2012-06-19 02:48:20 UTC
xxxAmanda PhucKxxx wrote:
Private Pineapple wrote:
xxxAmanda PhucKxxx wrote:
So do you just go in and speedtank it and get LP, sorry iam a noob?


Yes.

Thanks for letting me know about this great service sir i will be joning to speed tank them all, but where should i start?

Amamake - Top belt...
Lord Garrus
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#116 - 2012-07-14 08:54:23 UTC
I tried plexing some majors/minors with a Vigil (1mn ab, ssb, 2xoverd, nano), got destroyed twice. My speed was about 1250m/s. I am thinking to try a cheaper ship, the Slasher, since it has much smaller signature than the Vigil (30 instead of 44). Fitted one with 1mn ab, ssb, 1xoverd, but I am stuck on 1200m/s, is that enough to speed tank majors?

Rengas > Garrus for CSM. Swap him out for the rest of these jokers.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#117 - 2012-07-14 14:57:23 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
SAA Legis wrote:
FW doesn't introduce ISK into EVE. There's no printing. In fact, it's an ISK sink. When you get an implant off the store for LP+ISK, you remove ISK from the game, reducing inflation.

.


What you don't get is that the LP store's ISK sink is reduced by 75% at Tier 5. What we're seeing here is a significant reduction of the second largest ISK sink in Eve which according to Dr E has too few sinks as it stood before Inferno. The simplest fix would be to get rid of the ISK reductions of the diffferent Tiers.
The flooding of the markets with +4 & +5 learning implants at 3/4 the ISK sink reduction will actually in the long run keep more ISK in the system actually increasing inflation.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-07-14 15:45:16 UTC
Lord Garrus wrote:
I tried plexing some majors/minors with a Vigil (1mn ab, ssb, 2xoverd, nano), got destroyed twice. My speed was about 1250m/s. I am thinking to try a cheaper ship, the Slasher, since it has much smaller signature than the Vigil (30 instead of 44). Fitted one with 1mn ab, ssb, 1xoverd, but I am stuck on 1200m/s, is that enough to speed tank majors?


Why would you necro this thread instead of making a more appropriate thread in Ships and Modules or Missions and Complexes?

Anyways, you need better navigation skills. When I got up to 1450 m/s in a Vigil I was able to do majors just fine but on mediums I would get hit occasionally so I had to pulse the SSB. Minors are impossible to do as the frigates have good tracking and the oribt is not big enough to escape their optimal.

This is assuming you are doing the Amarr complexes, at your skills don't even try anything bigger than a Caldari minor in a perma-rep SSB Rifter.

.
Forum Foreplay
#119 - 2012-07-14 17:50:28 UTC
FW is supposed to be PvP, they should just remove the PvE aspect altogether.

Even a sandbox has borders to keep the sand inside...
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2012-07-15 03:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Quote:
I should not be able to make that kind of ISK in so little time with the exception of intelligently playing the market.


A child ready to jump off of a roof-top into a blanket held by his few friends with a nervous look says, "someone better stop us soon before someone gets hurt.

They are trying to attract new players to FW.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]