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NPC corps should not be safe havens for players

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Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#121 - 2012-06-18 21:05:35 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Ana Vyr wrote:
Where did the nullsec game go?

While I also don't think veteran folks should be able to hide in NPC corps to avoid wars, I do think that all this focus on killing high sec players is misplaced.

The problem is a lot of those high sec players avoiding wars are null sec players.


You mean that these players don't actually enjoy PvP constantly????

Surely you are joking.

Or more accurately war decs are not conducive to the smooth running of their 20 man high sec bot mining fleet.

But seriously, NPC corp haulers etc.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2012-06-18 21:12:22 UTC
AWWWW!!! Op must have aKill On sight list which is borderline EULA violation. cry me a river my mug is empty
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#123 - 2012-06-18 21:12:44 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Ana Vyr wrote:
Where did the nullsec game go?

While I also don't think veteran folks should be able to hide in NPC corps to avoid wars, I do think that all this focus on killing high sec players is misplaced.

Apparently they are bored with Nullsec and instead are trying to find as many ways as possible to grief newbies with as few consequences as possible.

Despite being roughly 11 months old my character only has 2.5ish million SP because I was forced to quit shortly after starting the game. Since I"m back I've been trying to get into a couple corporations but so far they all seem to think I'm some sort of spy and that I'm not really a newie... So part of the problem is that newbies have a hard time finding a decent corp that will give them a chance which leaves mostly scammer corps..


One of the "rules" is this:

Don't trust anyone.

What an awesome rule for a cooperative multiplayer game eh?

Sadly, this rule is 100% pure wisdom in EvE as I discovered the hard way long ago.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#124 - 2012-06-18 21:19:07 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
One of the "rules" is this:

Don't trust anyone.

What an awesome rule for a cooperative multiplayer game eh?

Sadly, this rule is 100% pure wisdom in EvE as I discovered the hard way long ago.

The general rule is don't trust anyone you don't... well... trust.

I've lent plenty of in game friends ISK, I even let one of them borrow my Wyvern a while back, all without issue. The difference is between trusting people and trusting people blindly.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Herr Hammer Draken
#125 - 2012-06-18 21:21:28 UTC
I can see the evil grin on the devs face already. Sure they will make it so the NPC corps can be wardeced. But these NPC corps belong to the devs. They will install a war plan for each NPC corp. Once some corp war decs them they will ramp up production and will fleet huge fleets to protect their NPC space and more to attack the aggressor. Suddenly you will be facing NPC fleets 20 times the size of your own. They might even hunt down your corps home base and destroy it.

These are the home race NPC corps. 4 of them and each ismany times the size of any player owned corp. With almost unlimited resources by comparison to a player run corp. The devs will see to it that any player corp that wants to declare war on an NPC corp will feel the total weight of an empire.

So what are faction wars? Well those are wars between nearly equal powers. No way can any player run corp hope to compare with the power of an empire.

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#126 - 2012-06-18 21:21:47 UTC
OK so to sum up.

We're talking about making it possible to declare war on an NPC Corporation?

Here is what I envision happening.

Wardeccer Corp declares war on Caldari Provisions.
Everyone in Caldari Provisions stops doing anything, sits in station, and plays Skill Queue Online until war is over.

You can not force someone into a fight. A more productive endeavor might be to look for someone who does want to fight. Players hiding in the NPC Corps are hiding there to avoid wardecs. Making the corp war-deccable does not change the fact that the player does not want to engage in that activity and they will either wait it out in the station or unsub. In either case, you are not increasing your number of targets.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#127 - 2012-06-18 21:22:04 UTC
i agree NPC characters should not be able to fly freighters period while they are in NPC corp.
I thing this defenetly needs change. Big alliances are hidding behind this.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#128 - 2012-06-18 21:23:09 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
OK so to sum up.

We're talking about making it possible to declare war on an NPC Corporation?

Here is what I envision happening.

Wardeccer Corp declares war on Caldari Provisions.
Everyone in Caldari Provisions stops doing anything, sits in station, and plays Skill Queue Online until war is over.

You can not force someone into a fight. A more productive endeavor might be to look for someone who does want to fight. Players hiding in the NPC Corps are hiding there to avoid wardecs. Making the corp war-deccable does not change the fact that the player does not want to engage in that activity and they will either wait it out in the station or unsub. In either case, you are not increasing your number of targets.

I think the conversation has gone more toward heavier penalties for older players who remain in NPC corps/NPC corp alts.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#129 - 2012-06-18 21:28:18 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
i agree NPC characters should not be able to fly freighters period while they are in NPC corp.
I thing this defenetly needs change. Big alliances are hidding behind this.

Of course big alliances are using neutral alts, be it altcorps or NPC corps.

Does anyone think we undock our freighters into the Jita campers?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#130 - 2012-06-18 21:38:03 UTC
Oh goody, it's this bad idea again. Roll

Not everyone wants to be a biological NPC for your pleasure, OP. I was in player-run corps before. I choose to remain in an NPC corp because I would feel like I wasn't contributing to a player-run corp due to the small amount of time I have available. Others have various, equally valid, reasons for remaining in an NPC corp. Who are you to decide how I play the game? As long as CCP charges my credit card every month, not yours, I get to decide how I want to play the game.

Please remember that Eve is a game for entertainment purposes. Guys like you want to turn it into some kind of second job. I say no thanks to that.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#131 - 2012-06-18 21:40:08 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Oh goody, it's this bad idea again. Roll

Not everyone wants to be a biological NPC for your pleasure, OP. I was in player-run corps before. I choose to remain in an NPC corp because I would feel like I wasn't contributing to a player-run corp due to the small amount of time I have available. Others have various, equally valid, reasons for remaining in an NPC corp. Who are you to decide how I play the game? As long as CCP charges my credit card every month, not yours, I get to decide how I want to play the game.

Please remember that Eve is a game for entertainment purposes. Guys like you want to turn it into some kind of second job. I say no thanks to that.

We get to decide how to play the game just by paying for it?

CCP I'll take seven titans and a module that generates ISK when active. Please send them to this account ASAP since I am paying for this game and have decided that I want to play it on easy mode.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2012-06-18 21:40:42 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
OK so to sum up.

We're talking about making it possible to declare war on an NPC Corporation?

Here is what I envision happening.

Wardeccer Corp declares war on Caldari Provisions.
Everyone in Caldari Provisions stops doing anything, sits in station, and plays Skill Queue Online until war is over.

You can not force someone into a fight. A more productive endeavor might be to look for someone who does want to fight. Players hiding in the NPC Corps are hiding there to avoid wardecs. Making the corp war-deccable does not change the fact that the player does not want to engage in that activity and they will either wait it out in the station or unsub. In either case, you are not increasing your number of targets.

I think the conversation has gone more toward heavier penalties for older players who remain in NPC corps/NPC corp alts.

The end result probably hold true in both situations. Either NPC corps become decable and people dock up and play skill queue online or they leave due to conditions becoming more restrictive, go to a player or 1man corp and play skill queue online when dec'd. For those that want to avoid fights, it doesn't matter where it's done.
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#133 - 2012-06-18 21:43:55 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:

We get to decide how to play the game just by paying for it?

CCP I'll take seven titans and a module that generates ISK when active. Please send them to this account ASAP since I am paying for this game and have decided that I want to play it on easy mode.



I can see you fail at both logic and reading comprehension. Do the words "sandbox-style MMORPG" mean anything to you?
Kyle Valentine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2012-06-18 21:52:37 UTC
I have good standings with all empires, and activities in each four. I don't want to fight my beloved friends !
Let me be a simple citizen who pay his taxes for protection, without corp. Or let me join the Interbus. I will do it now if I can.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2012-06-18 21:53:56 UTC
Kyle Valentine wrote:
I have good standings with all empires, and activities in each four. I don't want to fight my beloved friends !
Let me be a simple citizen who pay his taxes for protection, without corp. Or let me join the Interbus. I will do it now if I can.

EVERYONE! PILE ON THE INTERBUS!
Cloned S0ul
POCKOCMOC Inc.
#136 - 2012-06-18 21:55:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloned S0ul
Stop panic ... Strange idea not worth to mention, NPC corporations exists because newbis need them as start point, NPC corporations are part of EvE background, NPC corps aren't strongholds , if you realy want you can still gank those who in npc corporations, exctep newbis... They are designed to move people to player corps in close future, because big taxes, limited possibilities etc.

I dont get OP point, grab guns shot somone...
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#137 - 2012-06-18 21:57:26 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:

We get to decide how to play the game just by paying for it?

CCP I'll take seven titans and a module that generates ISK when active. Please send them to this account ASAP since I am paying for this game and have decided that I want to play it on easy mode.



I can see you fail at both logic and reading comprehension. Do the words "sandbox-style MMORPG" mean anything to you?

I don't think a sand box MMO is what you think it is, you're operating under the (admittedly common) misconception that a sand box game design philosophy means you can do whatever you want without interference from other players.

This is incorrect.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
FireT
Venom Pointe Industries
#138 - 2012-06-18 21:58:02 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
FireT wrote:
Similarly if you force everyone to fight CCP will have a mass exodus of your infamous carebears.

There was no mass exodus during Hulkageddon Infinity, nor during the PI fix, or Inferno, etc.
The only time mass exoduses have ever happened was when CCP began catering to carebears by implementing exclusively risk-free commodity/isk faucets, like Incursion, Incarna and Tyrannis. This is because the enjoyment derived by most players in EVE is from overcoming adversity, usually in the form of other players.

Players only use NPC corps to stick their PVE characters in because it competitively advantageous to do so. If NPC Corps were removed, or made risky in some manner, players would adapt; just like how the use of Covetors has exploded in highsec in the face of Hulk-pilot genocide - not by mass unsubs.

In short, your threat is an empty one, and we should go full on ahead in the move to ban NPC corps in the pursuit of a better, more balanced game.


Um, links to numbers please? I've played since EA and the only mass exodus that I have been privy to was the Incarna Exodus, of which my original character was a part of.


No need for numbers. Use your brain.

You yourself mentioned that people left because of Incarna. An expansion designed o try something new and that HAD NO IMPACT on your PvP. Yet ragers raged and quit.

Now imagine the OP's idea and the fact that it actually DOES affect people and their play style. You really think that people will remain if their type of preferred gaming is gone? Really?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2012-06-18 22:00:23 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
OK so to sum up.

We're talking about making it possible to declare war on an NPC Corporation?

Here is what I envision happening.

Wardeccer Corp declares war on Caldari Provisions.
Everyone in Caldari Provisions stops doing anything, sits in station, and plays Skill Queue Online until war is over.

You can not force someone into a fight. A more productive endeavor might be to look for someone who does want to fight. Players hiding in the NPC Corps are hiding there to avoid wardecs. Making the corp war-deccable does not change the fact that the player does not want to engage in that activity and they will either wait it out in the station or unsub. In either case, you are not increasing your number of targets.

OP argues to make deccing NPC corps possible.
I disagree and argue that NPC corps aren't necessary at all, and should just be replaced with a 'freelancer' system where players are individually deccable.
Some players want to play EVE solo, and I respect that.
I just don't think they need wardec immunity as a crutch to do so, especially when the use of alts creates so many problems with the system.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#140 - 2012-06-18 22:02:10 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The end result probably hold true in both situations. Either NPC corps become decable and people dock up and play skill queue online or they leave due to conditions becoming more restrictive, go to a player or 1man corp and play skill queue online when dec'd. For those that want to avoid fights, it doesn't matter where it's done.

Those that want to avoid fights via corp hopping and in-game police protection are probably playing the wrong game. If you wish to avoid combat, it should be via player skill. Especially for older players.

I understand the need for NPC corp protection for newer players, but when it comes to multi-year old NPC corp orcas/jump freighters etc. it's simply an abused system.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]