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Torpedo damage doesn't fit my calculations
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Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#1 - 2012-06-17 12:09:13 UTC
Wanted to test out torpedos with a corp mate.

My torps have a base damage (fitted) of 685.13 and explosion radius 450m, velocity 108m/s

My friend had ship sig radius 480m, 20% resist, max velocity 131m/s

Shot when he was stationary hit for 622 damage (9.2% below maximum)
Shot when he was at 131 m/s hit for 544.
Shot when at 131m/s AND target painted (meta 4 painter) hit for 622 damage again.

For ease, stationary damage was predicted at 548 without boost from 480/450 sig to explosion radius. With the boost (not included in equation, merely a theoretical posibility) predicted 584.6 damage. Both fall short of 622.

Now, I'm pretty sure that the painter didn't perfectly counter his speed and I'm pretty sure I should be hitting maximum when he as sat still, being large than the explosion radius, but the number don't fit. There's almost certainly some limit to the damage (in my case 622) but why that number?

Why does a target painter make up for speed? Why am I hitting more than the resist should allow?

Anyone found any solutions to this recently? I get the feeling the many equations floating about on wikis aren't exactly up to date.

All base numbers are found from fitted ships and modules, thereby accounting for all skills last I knew.
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-06-17 13:33:43 UTC
You took the numbers from when you were in space right?

Ive found that some numbers are different from being in space and being docked up.
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#3 - 2012-06-17 21:08:06 UTC
All numbers in space, yes.
stoicfaux
#4 - 2012-06-17 21:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=901280

The first part of the formula is based on sig size. MF1 = MIN(sig/Er,1)
The second part of the formula is based mainly on speed and to a lesser degree, sig size (i.e. your TP helps.) MF2 = (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5))

The lesser of the two values is used when computing the final damage. Normally, the second formula (MF2) (aka target speed) winds up being being the limiting factor.

edit:
Also, use EFT's or pyFA's numbers when plugging in values. You can also use the EFT/pyFA DPS graph to see how much you'll actually hit for.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#5 - 2012-06-17 23:03:05 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=901280

The first part of the formula is based on sig size. MF1 = MIN(sig/Er,1)
The second part of the formula is based mainly on speed and to a lesser degree, sig size (i.e. your TP helps.) MF2 = (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5))

The lesser of the two values is used when computing the final damage. Normally, the second formula (MF2) (aka target speed) winds up being being the limiting factor.

edit:
Also, use EFT's or pyFA's numbers when plugging in values. You can also use the EFT/pyFA DPS graph to see how much you'll actually hit for.


Hang on...drf.

What does that actually mean? I saw a flat number early into that post but there seems to be variants further on.
stoicfaux
#6 - 2012-06-18 04:15:06 UTC
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=901280

The first part of the formula is based on sig size. MF1 = MIN(sig/Er,1)
The second part of the formula is based mainly on speed and to a lesser degree, sig size (i.e. your TP helps.) MF2 = (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5))

The lesser of the two values is used when computing the final damage. Normally, the second formula (MF2) (aka target speed) winds up being being the limiting factor.

edit:
Also, use EFT's or pyFA's numbers when plugging in values. You can also use the EFT/pyFA DPS graph to see how much you'll actually hit for.


Hang on...drf.

What does that actually mean? I saw a flat number early into that post but there seems to be variants further on.

DRF == Damage Reduction Factor.

It varies according to missile type. For Heavy Scourge missiles it's 4.5. For normal heavy missiles it's 3.2. In EFT, right click on a missile launcher and choose 'Show Charge Info'. DRF is available in pyFA as well. Otherwise you need to pull it from the Eve database dump.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#7 - 2012-06-18 06:34:05 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
The first part of the formula is based on sig size. MF1 = MIN(sig/Er,1)
The second part of the formula is based mainly on speed and to a lesser degree, sig size (i.e. your TP helps.) MF2 = (Ev/Er * sig/vel)^(log(drf) / log(5.5))


Actually, target speed and target sig size affect the second term equally. e.g. doubling target velocity and doubling sig size at the same time means that damage stays unchanged.

The first term means that unlike turrets, there's no way to compensate for a small target sig size by slowing the target down. Even if it is sitting perfectly still, a frigate will never get hit for full damage by a torpedo.

Also, unlike turrets, missiles have no minimum average DPS they do (for turrets, it's 3%).
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#8 - 2012-06-18 19:56:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth Skybound
Hmmm....still doesn't explain higher damage than max minus resists.
stoicfaux
#9 - 2012-06-18 21:32:17 UTC
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
Hmmm....still doesn't explain higher damage than max minus resists.

Either the Eve GUI is presenting the wrong numbers, or you're doing something wrong. Install EFT or pyfa, add your character's api, and use their numbers.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.