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New dev blog: The Economy “Burns“ (Price Indices – May 2012)

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Celebris Nexterra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-06-12 21:33:37 UTC
Max Swagger wrote:
I think it is pretty obvious CCP will stop at nothing to sell PLEX. After the Fashion Cluster F*ck (where all they wanted to do was sell clothes and call it content) they were at least smart enough to pay attention to people unsubbing and salvage the situation (by abandoning it) Believe it or not, many companies do not seem to pay attention to their cash cows.

Now they are messing with the economy. They are doing their best to ensure everyone needs to buy PLEX to play this game (in addition to monthly fee). Soon the people who have no interest in the economic side of eve will probably move on, as the price to play will get too high. Until the unsub's increase, we know nothing will be done to easy this inflation.

CCP really really wants have a forced cash shop (PLEX) with a monthly fee. And, this is fine, if the game provides the entertainment value. I am willing to bet, over all, Eve is already one of the highest costing MMO's out there on a per customer basis (not account). Lets say they have 400k accounts, that probably translates to 150k customers (or less) And I bet 20% of those buy at least 1 PLEX or more every month, in addition to month subscription. If the PLEX prices were rising also, I would see less issues, but they seem to be going in opposite direction lately.

They are here to make money. And they have the some of the most loyal fans. Lets hope they don't take us for granted and continue to provide great entertainment value in exchange for our money.


If you have to buy PLEX to be able to make it in the game, you're either flying WAY too expensive of ships, or you're just doing it completely wrong. Also, they nerfed bots, so by extension you are saying you support bots by saying that you disagree with what they did (nerf bots). Right on CCP's forums, nice one.
Celebris Nexterra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-06-12 21:36:39 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Celebris Nexterra wrote:
I fully support suicide ganking being possible and common, but I think Hulks need a bit of a tank buff. They're just huge targets with nary the ability to move, and aside from not mining or not fitting mining lasers, it's nearly impossible for them to avoid getting ganked. Seems a bit silly that 3 Thrashers (total value ~30mil) can easily gank something that costs 180mil+.


the cost of your ship isn't part of its tank, hope this helps


Hm, wish I had watched this thread and responded sooner. Anyway, no, you are right. But only technically. In reality, the cost of a ship almost always reflects its ability to tank: Titan costs ~30bil, has millions of EHP. Incursus costs ~300k, has a few thousand EHP. You can most certainly fit those ships in a way which robs them of tank, but if you are TRYING to tank them it's easily done. Even if you TRY to tank a Hulk, it can still be ganked by just a few much cheaper ships.

And no, I'm not a miner.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#63 - 2012-06-12 21:41:19 UTC
Shobon Welp wrote:
On the other hand, the easier it is to make money the less rewarding it becomes to do so. If everyone is stupendously rich and has a deadspace tengu and a supercap alt, where's the excitement and sense of achievement in joining that not-so-exclusive club yourself?


You're right, the only ones deserving to fly 3billion Tengus, buy super caps and titans+ pilots are Alliance leaders, their fellah directors and corp leaders/directors. The rest of you shouldn't even fly other thing than rifters/drakes to be the previous ones content.

Awesome player driven content for a dog shift sandbox Lol

brb
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#64 - 2012-06-12 21:45:04 UTC
Celebris Nexterra wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Celebris Nexterra wrote:
I fully support suicide ganking being possible and common, but I think Hulks need a bit of a tank buff. They're just huge targets with nary the ability to move, and aside from not mining or not fitting mining lasers, it's nearly impossible for them to avoid getting ganked. Seems a bit silly that 3 Thrashers (total value ~30mil) can easily gank something that costs 180mil+.


the cost of your ship isn't part of its tank, hope this helps


Hm, wish I had watched this thread and responded sooner. Anyway, no, you are right. But only technically. In reality, the cost of a ship almost always reflects its ability to tank: Titan costs ~30bil, has millions of EHP. Incursus costs ~300k, has a few thousand EHP. You can most certainly fit those ships in a way which robs them of tank, but if you are TRYING to tank them it's easily done. Even if you TRY to tank a Hulk, it can still be ganked by just a few much cheaper ships.

And no, I'm not a miner.

My cynabal costs ~700m, has a **** tank.

My hurricane costs ~60m, has an epic tank.

Go figure.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#65 - 2012-06-12 21:46:00 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Shobon Welp wrote:
On the other hand, the easier it is to make money the less rewarding it becomes to do so. If everyone is stupendously rich and has a deadspace tengu and a supercap alt, where's the excitement and sense of achievement in joining that not-so-exclusive club yourself?


You're right, the only ones deserving to fly 3billion Tengus, buy super caps and titans+ pilots are Alliance leaders, their fellah directors and corp leaders/directors. The rest of you shouldn't even fly other thing than rifters/drakes to be the previous ones content.

Awesome player driven content for a dog shift sandbox Lol


Or you could just get better at PvE? I can afford a super just fine and I'm in a 3 man corp.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-06-12 22:01:34 UTC
ccp make it so i can equip plex to my hulks' midslots please
Olleybear
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2012-06-12 22:23:26 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:

My cynabal costs ~700m, has a **** tank.

My hurricane costs ~60m, has an epic tank.

Go figure.


Considering that cynabal by themselves are around 250mil, it sounds like you have just disclosed to the Eve forums that you fitted the cynabal with close to 450mil worth of mods.

Hmmm, wonder how long it will be before someone runs a locator agent on you....

When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#68 - 2012-06-13 12:27:39 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Shobon Welp wrote:
On the other hand, the easier it is to make money the less rewarding it becomes to do so. If everyone is stupendously rich and has a deadspace tengu and a supercap alt, where's the excitement and sense of achievement in joining that not-so-exclusive club yourself?


You're right, the only ones deserving to fly 3billion Tengus, buy super caps and titans+ pilots are Alliance leaders, their fellah directors and corp leaders/directors. The rest of you shouldn't even fly other thing than rifters/drakes to be the previous ones content.

Awesome player driven content for a dog shift sandbox Lol


Or you could just get better at PvE? I can afford a super just fine and I'm in a 3 man corp.



PVE to support my pvp yes, zombie PVE alike to post "I win at Eve because I have a 3 man corp and a supercap I can barely to almost never use" ... welp, I feel bad for you if you have nothing better to do of your full time.

brb
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#69 - 2012-06-13 13:12:00 UTC
Olleybear wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:

My cynabal costs ~700m, has a **** tank.

My hurricane costs ~60m, has an epic tank.

Go figure.


Considering that cynabal by themselves are around 250mil, it sounds like you have just disclosed to the Eve forums that you fitted the cynabal with close to 450mil worth of mods.

Hmmm, wonder how long it will be before someone runs a locator agent on you....

Yep, it's totally top sekrit information that I have a bling cynabal.

If you think that's bad, you should see my T3s.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
#70 - 2012-06-13 19:03:22 UTC
Im not great at the economics, but I do pattern analysis for a living. It seems the bottom line is people aren't mining. It's just people flooding the market with inventory to take advantage of market prices. It might take monthes for those supplies to dry up, but unless mining increases everything will get more expensive. again. With the isk sinks being impemented, no one is going to be able to afford the expensive ships/mods. people will turn to plexing for isk, at least the serious players Roll, so in the end you are going to have pay to win, which i thought CCP stood firmly against.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#71 - 2012-06-13 19:11:51 UTC
ReiAnn wrote:
Im not great at the economics, but I do pattern analysis for a living. It seems the bottom line is people aren't mining. It's just people flooding the market with inventory to take advantage of market prices. It might take monthes for those supplies to dry up, but unless mining increases everything will get more expensive. again. With the isk sinks being impemented, no one is going to be able to afford the expensive ships/mods. people will turn to plexing for isk, at least the serious players Roll, so in the end you are going to have pay to win, which i thought CCP stood firmly against.

Except... Plex prices are governed by supply and demand just like everything else.

If less people can afford to buy plex, plex price drops. If more people are selling plex, plex price drops. Etc.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
sm1thy
southeast investments corp
#72 - 2012-06-17 09:47:55 UTC
too many ppl don't really grasp the concept of PLEX.

It is an item a player sells to another player.
It may be a way to keep content or discontent ppl in the game, thus maintaining a bigger player base. BUT
It is as profitable to ccp as having everyone pay their subscription as usual. Go find out for yourself.

There may be games, mmo's, where companies charge unfairly for content. EVE isn't one of them.

Think outside the box.








Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
#73 - 2012-06-18 19:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jdestars
why the market burn .. not cause of the "hulkalacon" , Spring additional effects are which have influenced never really the supplies of the market (large part of trade are in station , stockpill never move )

if you show the mineral graph you can see one thing : its the biggest volume in sell

In Jita for trita there are more than 15b of trita in sell with the maximun mass stack that server can be do

some mechanical in price ordre has been used for modify median calculation to erradicate external macro & tool effect based on it
this mechanical has been tested in raw planetary last year and replace this year and some ppl use in trading of mineral in other scale ;)

Leader economic in fanfest predicate the growing wave in market , We help him to realize these predictions by using the basic mechanism of the trade : (median ,average calculation ,distribution function) possible only if "we" ( trader) have the stock control And enough of isk to maintain it
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#74 - 2012-06-18 19:33:18 UTC
sm1thy wrote:
too many ppl don't really grasp the concept of PLEX.

It is an item a player sells to another player.
It may be a way to keep content or discontent ppl in the game, thus maintaining a bigger player base. BUT
It is as profitable to ccp as having everyone pay their subscription as usual. Go find out for yourself.

There may be games, mmo's, where companies charge unfairly for content. EVE isn't one of them.

Think outside the box.

Oh, the irony. PLEX is actually marginally more profitable for CCP than a paid subscription.

Not that I agree with the "CCP are forcing us to sell PLEX" tinfoil hattery, but the reason their tinfoil hattery is misguided is a little less simplistic.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2012-06-18 21:29:18 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
sm1thy wrote:
too many ppl don't really grasp the concept of PLEX.

It is an item a player sells to another player.
It may be a way to keep content or discontent ppl in the game, thus maintaining a bigger player base. BUT
It is as profitable to ccp as having everyone pay their subscription as usual. Go find out for yourself.

There may be games, mmo's, where companies charge unfairly for content. EVE isn't one of them.

Think outside the box.

Oh, the irony. PLEX is actually marginally more profitable for CCP than a paid subscription.

Not that I agree with the "CCP are forcing us to sell PLEX" tinfoil hattery, but the reason their tinfoil hattery is misguided is a little less simplistic.
Looking at the PLEX RL currency face value, I disagree on the PLEX profit margin verses the margin on the reoccurring charge plans available.

Put any of the PLEX sales offerings up against any of the subscription plans and CCP makes out nicely with the PLEX sales from a margin perspective.

What am I missing?

+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark “Seleene” Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith.
Jiji Hamin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-06-25 18:57:17 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Olleybear wrote:
Am I really reading these responses correctly?

People have been saying for years that mining needs a buff to be a valid profession in Eve. The reason is you can run lvl 4 missions in hi-sec or belt rat in 0.0 and bring in more minerals in addition to the bounty paid and the salvage collected. So, drone regions get a change and start paying bounties and mission runners have meta 0 loot removed. These two things, in addition to hulkageddon having some effect on mining, and apparantly the war on botting has reduced the supply of minerals, has made mining a profitable profession and mining appears to be needed more by the player base now....

...and people are complaining because they are getting exactly what they wanted?

Whats next? Someone figures out the isk / hr a hulk pilot is now bringing in? We are going to start hearing, "Nerf hi-sec mining! People can make tons of isk mining in hi-sec with little risk while us poor 0.0 and low-sec people have to run gate camps to get our minerals to market.".

Roll

Gate camps? JFs... Hell, can even just bridge a regular freighter.

But yeah, the people complaining are the ones who see the Eve economy as a real economy, or they are new to the game and they don't realise there was a time when ships were genuinely valuable. In a game economy cheap and readily available gear is not always a good thing, being able to grind out the money for a drake in an hour in high sec is silly.

I sincerely hope CCP mess with the economy some more.


truth! this isn't "stagflation" and it isn't the economy being mismanaged. the eve community has systematically treated miners like ****, and as a combat pilot let me say that giving industry a central role in the game again will be nothing but a good change. miners are finally being handed the keys to the economy again like they should have had and people are bitching and moaning now that combat pilots don't get the best PvE, the only PvP AND complete control over the game and its politics. Adding moon resources to mining will be a glorious day indeed. combat pilots generate isk, and currently there is too much isk and not enough anything else, because there are too many combat toons around in 0.0 generally acting like the game revolves around them and assuming everything will always be handed to them. want to make money? find a way to generate something other than isk, like LPs or sleeper loot or switch to mining outright if making isk is what's more important.