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NPC corps should not be safe havens for players

First post
Author
Sister Rhode
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2012-06-18 20:03:35 UTC
Combine NPC corps with faction warfare. NPC corps should just be the militia and vice versa.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#102 - 2012-06-18 20:05:50 UTC
You guys have it wrong. NPC corps should be in a constant war-dec towards their opposing faction's NPC corps. For example, all Caldari-based NPC corps are at war with Gallente-based NPC corps.

*Leave the Noobcorps alone though (They usually end with "academy" or something)*

The catch is, The NPC faction police would open fire on their respective enemies. So all Caldari-based NPC corp members would be "red flashy" in Gallente space, making griefing extremely hard using these mechanics. PVP would be possible and would happen in a more "guerilla-style" type of encounter or on "neutral grounds" - in this case, amarr or minmatar space.
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-06-18 20:09:29 UTC
Nah, NPC corps are a necessity for new players and casual players. There are a lot of players who abuse NPC corps for risk free logistics and such. I'd support more taxes and more things taxable (like market orders, refining, LP) on characters that choose to stay in NPC corps for a long time. I know people will just make one man corps but it's the best we can do unless you remake a lot of core game mechanics.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-06-18 20:09:32 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
You guys have it wrong. NPC corps should be in a constant war-dec towards their opposing faction's NPC corps. For example, all Caldari-based NPC corps are at war with Gallente-based NPC corps.

*Leave the Noobcorps alone though (They usually end with "academy" or something)*

The catch is, The NPC faction police would open fire on their respective enemies. So all Caldari-based NPC corp members would be "red flashy" in Gallente space, making griefing extremely hard using these mechanics. PVP would be possible and would happen in a more "guerilla-style" type of encounter or on "neutral grounds" - in this case, amarr or minmatar space.

You would probably need to change the default Gallente corp from the Scope to something else then. Most war correspondents I've seen would make terrible frontline combatants.
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#105 - 2012-06-18 20:14:23 UTC
tl;dr You're welcome to fight station guns. 'Safe' NPC corps give casuals a place to play. Your boredom is not their fault. They do give things up for it.

Assuming you leave the noob corps out of it, and only implement such a change for the NPC corp that folks get dumped in after they leave a player corp (because everyone 'has' to be in a corp).

So you wardec, say, Sebiestor Tribe, the one I was in. You now have hundreds or thousands of targets. All of these 'safe' people you couldn't freely shoot before. Have you forgotten that those NPC corps are part of the infrastructure of the empires? Do you think the NPC's would just let you sit on the undock and blow away their tribesmen because you paid a few million for a war-dec? No. As soon as you declared war on them, every Sebiestor run station would be given orders to fire upon you if you came within range. So, I mean sure, make that change. Those 'safe' people would still have station guns working for them. They'd be a little less safe out in the systems at large, but they'd still have safe spots to go to. All those industrialists you're worried are ruining the economy sitting in their CQ's would still be able to do business. All this gains you is the ability to hunt down missioners who aren't PvP fit, which I'm sure gives you a 'he should have been fit better even though PvE and PvP fits are completely at odds, so really it's his fault' boner.

And this is all leaving aside the fact that not everyone who plays the game has the time or inclination to fly in a world where they are always under threat of war-dec (which they would be) or suicide gank (which they are), and can't play the game in any kind of leisure time manner because you want more targets. If your corp is that boring, go fight someone who wants to fight. Someone who chose the PvP life and lives in an area that encourages it. Change the status quo in your area. Go play the game you have full right and access to play, and let everyone else do the same.

Lastly, concerning 'they give up nothing to be in an NPC corp': bull. They give up a huge chunk of the game. Sov, serious POS's, all of the empire building mechanics and capital ship construction. That's a lot of content they'll never see. But where else can a casual go that requires no more of his time than he is willing to spend? Maybe he lucks out and finds a 'whatever man' lo or null corp (I don't know any). The only way those organizations get to the things I just mentioned is by concerted effort. Going to war requires him to be there for battles. Et cetera. All things he may not have time for, or be able to get his schedule to coincide with. So NPC corps is the way to go. If he strikes out on his own and just makes a personal corp, he'll never get the resources together to field a station, defend it when he's away, refuel it, etc. The systems are built so that he needs back up.

And that's all fine, that it's built that way. But that means it doesn't work for everyone. And catering a part of the game to casual players expands your base, and guarantees that if the time ever comes that they want to try those other aspects, they've already got the groundwork for it, and the cash to try it. They may like it, they may not, but they have the option. Like the option to be in an un-deccable corp.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2012-06-18 20:17:05 UTC
FireT wrote:
Please enlighten me, and I am going to assume others too, about these 'exclusive advantages'.
As far as I know you are just as useful and useless as the average carebear. Why? BECAUSE YOU BOTH PAY THE SAME SUBSCRIPTION. Unless of course hardcore interwebzpiwats pay double. In which case, yes you are right and CCP should serve your needs.

Till then, if it is trying to attract the largest possible player base it needs NPC corps for casuals.

True NPC corp 'casual players' would be the least effected of anyone if NPC corps were removed and replaced with a deccable individual system. Why? Because highsec wardec corps would go after the hardcore players (as you put it) who were using NPC corps to put mining/freighter/logistics alts in. Because they're the ones more likely to be online and have more loot then the 'casual player' who only plays 1-2 hours a week, right?

Do you think a system that favors the 60M sp PVE specialist alt at the expense of the of the newbie character in his first player-run corporation is really one that could be called casual and newbie friendly?
FireT
Venom Pointe Industries
#107 - 2012-06-18 20:19:48 UTC
Since we are on absurd demands: why not get rid of high sec all together?
That way new players can get their face shot in from day one and enjoy people in massive ships harassing them.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2012-06-18 20:33:24 UTC
FireT wrote:
Since we are on absurd demands: why not get rid of high sec all together?
That way new players can get their face shot in from day one and enjoy people in massive ships harassing them.

They already can get their faces shot in from day one, just park a thrasher on the gate from a rookie system.
NPC corps don't protect newbies in any way shape or form, they just punish the newbies who want to socialize in an MMO, which makes it absurd that 'think of the newbies' is such a common response to the proposal of removing NPC corps.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-06-18 20:35:01 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
...NPC corps don't protect newbies in any way shape or form, they just punish the newbies who want to socialize in an MMO...

How exactly are they punished?
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#110 - 2012-06-18 20:35:48 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
FireT wrote:
Similarly if you force everyone to fight CCP will have a mass exodus of your infamous carebears.

There was no mass exodus during Hulkageddon Infinity, nor during the PI fix, or Inferno, etc.
The only time mass exoduses have ever happened was when CCP began catering to carebears by implementing exclusively risk-free commodity/isk faucets, like Incursion, Incarna and Tyrannis. This is because the enjoyment derived by most players in EVE is from overcoming adversity, usually in the form of other players.

Players only use NPC corps to stick their PVE characters in because it competitively advantageous to do so. If NPC Corps were removed, or made risky in some manner, players would adapt; just like how the use of Covetors has exploded in highsec in the face of Hulk-pilot genocide - not by mass unsubs.

In short, your threat is an empty one, and we should go full on ahead in the move to ban NPC corps in the pursuit of a better, more balanced game.


Um, links to numbers please? I've played since EA and the only mass exodus that I have been privy to was the Incarna Exodus, of which my original character was a part of.

John Hancock

Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2012-06-18 20:37:43 UTC
I think it wouldn't be bad if the starter corp was immune to wars but characters in that corp were kicked out after 30 days into a different npc corp that can be involved in wars.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#112 - 2012-06-18 20:38:16 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
Nah, NPC corps are a necessity for new players and casual players. There are a lot of players who abuse NPC corps for risk free logistics and such. I'd support more taxes and more things taxable (like market orders, refining, LP) on characters that choose to stay in NPC corps for a long time. I know people will just make one man corps but it's the best we can do unless you remake a lot of core game mechanics.

This.

Introduce incremental corp taxes and penalties for characters over a certain age operating in an NPC corp. Not sure what the penalties would be though.

If NPC corp abuse and corp hopping/war dec evasion were fixed we could probably finally see some of those suicide ganking nerfs miners keep screaming for. As it stands though, suicide ganks are the only viable method for attacking most players when war evasion is so trivial and without penalty.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Katja Faith
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-06-18 20:40:48 UTC
Donte wrote:
EVE is a harsh, cold, angry, bitter, mean, and many more malignant adjectives. None of which include "Safe".

So why is it that NPC corporations are immune to wardec's?

Individuals who fly for these companies are the "safest" people in EVE and i don't like it.

I think you should be able to wardec NPC corps.

Im sure considerations can be made with rules already in place about "safe havens" for brand new players in starter systems (perhaps even a starter constellation). but once they leave... Twisted

Thoughts?


NPC corps =/= Noob corps. they're different entities. NPC corps can only be entered after a player leaves a player corporation.


I smell yet another high sec wardec'er without the bawls to go to low or null. Why is it these types are the loudest whiners on GD?
ashley Eoner
#114 - 2012-06-18 20:41:38 UTC
If NPC corps are so amazingly great then why aren't you in one?






This subject seems to boil down to the OP's fear that someone somewhere might be using the NPC corp to avoid something..

Either that or the OP wants to get his grief on with the newbies..



My main has 2.5m sp but I already learned that it's never a good idea to attract attention.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2012-06-18 20:42:59 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
...NPC corps don't protect newbies in any way shape or form, they just punish the newbies who want to socialize in an MMO...

How exactly are they punished?

By moving much of the high-yield targets outside the purvue of a wardec, it's the newbies who don't know how to evade wardecs that eat the brunt of highsec PVP. By making all players equally wardecable, the pressure on ganking newbies is decreased, while the pressure on ganking cargo-laden freighters and pimpfit ratters once under NPC corp protection is increased.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#116 - 2012-06-18 20:51:00 UTC
Where did the nullsec game go?

While I also don't think veteran folks should be able to hide in NPC corps to avoid wars, I do think that all this focus on killing high sec players is misplaced.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#117 - 2012-06-18 20:54:42 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
Where did the nullsec game go?

While I also don't think veteran folks should be able to hide in NPC corps to avoid wars, I do think that all this focus on killing high sec players is misplaced.

The problem is a lot of those high sec players avoiding wars are null sec players.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2012-06-18 20:57:38 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
By moving much of the high-yield targets outside the purvue of a wardec, it's the newbies who don't know how to evade wardecs that eat the brunt of highsec PVP. By making all players equally wardecable, the pressure on ganking newbies is decreased, while the pressure on ganking cargo-laden freighters and pimpfit ratters once under NPC corp protection is increased.

An interesting point.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#119 - 2012-06-18 21:02:40 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Ana Vyr wrote:
Where did the nullsec game go?

While I also don't think veteran folks should be able to hide in NPC corps to avoid wars, I do think that all this focus on killing high sec players is misplaced.

The problem is a lot of those high sec players avoiding wars are null sec players.


You mean that these players don't actually enjoy PvP constantly????

Surely you are joking.
ashley Eoner
#120 - 2012-06-18 21:03:40 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
Where did the nullsec game go?

While I also don't think veteran folks should be able to hide in NPC corps to avoid wars, I do think that all this focus on killing high sec players is misplaced.

Apparently they are bored with Nullsec and instead are trying to find as many ways as possible to grief newbies with as few consequences as possible.

Despite being roughly 11 months old my character only has 2.5ish million SP because I was forced to quit shortly after starting the game. Since I"m back I've been trying to get into a couple corporations but so far they all seem to think I'm some sort of spy and that I'm not really a newie... So part of the problem is that newbies have a hard time finding a decent corp that will give them a chance which leaves mostly scammer corps..