Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Hello folks,

Welcome to the part deux of frigate balancing. As mentioned in the latest ship balancing blog, we will here have a look at what we call "attack frigates", which are a set of four hulls dedicated at cheap interception and tackling. Less resilient than combat frigates (Tormentor, Punisher, Merlin, Incursus, Rifter), they are however the more mobile and have better high/med-slot configuration (for utility and tackling respectively). They are the fastest tech1 frigates and supposed to introduce players to advanced tech2 interceptor gameplay.

The side-effect of such changes could in turn make the Tormentor less appealing than it currently is (we understand Amarr pilots currently use it as a tackling platform as the Punisher only has 2 medium slots). A Tormentor iteration thus is most likely and suggestions are welcome on how to do so.


Exact changes below (without skills):


EXECUTIONER:

• Frigate skill bonuses: -10% to small energy turret capacitor need and +5% small energy turret damage per level
• Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
• Slot layout: 4 H, 3 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, 0 launchers
• Fittings: 45 PWG, 140 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250 / 400 / 350
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 360 / 180 s / 2
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 410 / 2.85 / 1090000 / 2.91s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 27.5km / 920 / 4
• Sensor strength: 8 Radar
• Signature radius: 31
• Cargo capacity: 115

CONDOR:

• Frigate skill bonuses: +10% to rocket, light missile velocity and +5% damage to rocket, light missile damage per level
• Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
• Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M, 2 L, 0 turrets, 3 launchers
• Fittings: 40 PWG, 185 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 / 250 / 250
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 300 / 150 s / 2
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 400 / 2.9 / 1100000 / 2.99s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32.5km / 880 / 4
• Sensor strength: 9 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 33
• Cargo capacity: 130

ATRON:

• Frigate skill bonuses: +5% to small hybrid turret damage and +10% to small hybrid turret fallof per level
• Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
• Slot layout: 4 H, 3 M, 3 L, 3 turrets, 0 launchers
• Fittings: 42 PWG, 147 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300 / 350 / 400
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 330 / 165 s / 2
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 420 / 2.8 / 1050000 / 2.75s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 22.5km / 900 / 4
• Sensor strength: 8 Magnetometric
• Signature radius: 35
• Cargo capacity: 145

SLASHER:

• Frigate skill bonuses: +5% to small projectile turret damage and +7.5% to small projectile turret tracking per level
• Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost
• Slot layout: 4 H, 4 M, 2 L, 3 turrets, 0 launchers
• Fittings: 35 PWG, 135 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350 / 300 / 300
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 240 / 120 s / 2
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 430 / 2.83 / 1075000 / 2.85s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 20km / 940 / 4
• Sensor strength: 7 Ladar
• Signature radius: 30
• Cargo capacity: 120

That's all for now, constructive comments are welcome .

27/06 UPDATE: available here.

If you would only give the Rifter back some of the guts you ripped out of it....


..not a lot, just a little lower intestine so its not such a sphincetr cincher to fly now.

maybe give the Slasher (and the Atron, to a lesser extent) a little more targeting range?

the utility hislot allows to run a short range ab/web/scram setup with a nos, but the boni do nudge the ships into a long range warp disruptor setup (i love how the design offers this choice). however, the limited lock range on the slasher and the atron encourage a signal amp or sensor booster for long range setups. just checking whether that is intended.

Changes from the original are in brackets:

EXECUTIONER:

• Frigate skill bonuses: -10% to small energy turret capacitor need and +5% small energy turret damage per level
• Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost (new)
• Slot layout: 4 H (+2), 3 M (+1), 3 L (+1), 3 turrets (+1), 0 launchers
• Fittings: 45 PWG (+20), 140 CPU (+40)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 250 (+15) / 400 (+95) / 350 (+76)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 360 (+173) / 180 s (+39.37) / 2 (+0.67)
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 410 (+6) / 2.85 (+0.04) / 1090000 (-34000) / 2.91s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 27.5km (+7.5) / 920 (+220) / 4
• Sensor strength: 8 Radar (+2)
• Signature radius: 31 (-2)
• Cargo capacity: 115 (-20)

CONDOR:

• Frigate skill bonuses: +10% to rocket, light missile velocity and +5% damage to rocket, light missile damage per level (new)
• Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost (new)
• Slot layout: 4 H (+1), 4 M (+2), 2 L (+1), 0 turrets (-1), 3 launchers (+1)
• Fittings: 40 PWG (+15), 185 CPU (+85)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 400 (+126) / 250 (+24) / 250 (+55)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 300 (+144) / 150 s (+32.81) / 2 (+0.67)
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 400 (-4) / 2.9 (-0.28) / 1100000 (-85000) / 2.99s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32.5km (+7.5) / 880 (+245) / 4
• Sensor strength: 9 Gravimetric (+1)
• Signature radius: 33 (-4)
• Cargo capacity: 130 (-20)

ATRON:

• Frigate skill bonuses: +5% to small hybrid turret damage and +10% to small hybrid turret fallof per level
• Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost (new)
• Slot layout: 4 H (+2), 3 M (+1), 3 L (+1), 3 turrets (+1), 0 launchers
• Fittings: 42 PWG (+22), 147 CPU (+47)
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 300 (+65) / 350 (+76) / 400 (+150)
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 330 (+144) / 165 s (-47.81) / 2 (+0.67)
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 420 (+11) / 2.8 (+0.026) / 1050000 (-114000) / 2.75s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 (-5) / 0 (-5)
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 22.5km / 900 (+225) / 4
• Sensor strength: 8 Magnetometric (+1)
• Signature radius: 35 (-1)
• Cargo capacity: 145 (-20)

SLASHER:
[list]

Frigate skill bonuses: +5% to small projectile turret damage and +7.5% to small projectile turret tracking per level

Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost (new)

Slot layout: 4 H (+1), 4 M (+2), 2 L (+1), 3 turrets (+1), 0 launchers (-1)

Fittings: 35 PWG (+15), 135 CPU (+35)

Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 350 (+115) / 300 (+57) / 300 (+112)

Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 240 (+84) / 120 s (+2.81) / 2 (+0.67)

Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 430 (-11) / 2.83 / 1075000 (-75000) / 2.85s

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0

Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 20km (+2.5) / 940 (+190) / 4

Sensor strength: 7 Ladar (+2)

Signature radius: 30

Cargo capacity: 120

Let me know if you see mistakes, and I'll fix them.

I sense a disturbance in the force - as if 8 interceptors at once cried out for a buff.

"Strike Frigates" or something might work better and overall in the naming Scheme

Combat Ships VS Strike Ships (or something like that). Attack and Combat are very close to being synonymous.


Other than that ::

The role bonus really caught me off guard!

The changes look pretty decent for the T1 setups. They do seem to really look on par with the T2 interceptors- asking that they get a healthy boost when you get there.

The extreme targeting range variance seems to be a bit imbalancing. I understand 5-7 km locking range difference, but 12.5 km from top to bottom? That's a 30% difference. That means 1 Sensor Booster in the mid would get a Slasher to a Condor. You're essentially forcing a slot to be used for a sensor booster.

For the Slasher it seems like you're going for an Artillery platform with the tracking bonus (or really good at killing drones with the autocannons), but I find that at the upper end of 3,000m/s Artilleries aren't going to hit anything, pretty much no matter what! So, I wonder if a respectable falloff bonus would be preferred to get Autocannons (t2 barrage at least) to reach closer to 15+KM or so.

I think it's a healthy change to these ships, and it really is taking me some time to accomodate the idea that these ships aren't going to suck anymore! It's hard to really draw a good balancing point with these frigates because they feel a lot better on paper than they have ever been before, and I think there's some great potential here.

On the Condor, I think the Kinetic bonus would help remind Caldari pilots that they are meant to be kinetic DPSers, so I think it's interesting that you put a generic 5% damage bonus. Is this going to be a pattern of removing the kinetic bonus from caldari ship as you continue to rebalance?

well for the tormentor there are two options that amarr frigs wont have after changes, which is a laser sniper or drone boat as it already has drones bring it in line with the new navitas stats.

I sure Hope so!

Some points i'd like to raise:
-Possibly give each of them a single launcher (Turret, for the Condor) Hardpoint. Gives some versatility in fitting, allowing for a choice between a launcher(Turret) for damage-oriented setups or a nos for fleet/Tackle-oriented setups.
-4 Mids on the Slasher is questionable.
-Atron's may work better with a Tracking bonus. For tackling, this helps against drones, for damage dealing, it helps larger-tier blasters track up close, especially at atron speeds. Also worth noting is that Range probably wont be much of an isssue given its base speed.
---Possible same issue with the Executioner. Pulses have bad tracking, not sure how this will fare vs. Drones for fleet work and damage dealing. Possibly replace Cap use bonus with tracking/range
Edit: Condor would maybe work well with Exp Velocity Bonus instead or Range bonus, for reasons detailed below.
-Regarding Tormentor: +1 Turret, Lose the damage bonus and replace with a range bonus. Possibly consider +1 Drone and replacing the Cap use bonus with a Drone Hitpoints (But NOT Damage) Bonus.

Tracking is essential for such a flimsy class of ship when drones are considered. These ships would do well with the ability to deal with small numbers of drones while still focusing on tackle.
As it stands rght now, Slasher will probably be the only one used in fleets, because of speed/mids/lock speed and tracking, with Condor/Atron/Exequtioner used for solo occasionally.

Edit:

RAARRGH Y U NO GIEV AMAR MINING FRIG!

You are taking very fast frigates that have 6 slots and upgrading them to 10 slots. Their fitting grid is also getting an upgrade. These ships go interceptor speeds. For the above reasons I feel that a role bonus would be too much as well as out of place for tech 1

I would say the Crucifier is a better candidate for a drone boat, essentially make it a T1 frig version of the sentinel, arbitrator, and curse. Basically let it keep the TD bonus and swap the cap usage bonus to a drone damage/hp bonus. Of course the Crucifier also needs some major love in the slot and fitting department before it's remotely viable.