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T2BPO why they should be removed and how.

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Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#581 - 2012-06-15 23:44:49 UTC
Ore Bunny wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:


WTF are you on? You link two different ships.

Remove T2BPO make EVE real.


no ****, I linked two ships!

2 examples to prove that your theory about interceptors was just wrong. first example that showed you, that even with a T2 BPO you make negative profit (who cares if somebody can uncercut you or not when you lose money by building it), the other that you can make significant profit with inventing them.

god damn, I even have to explain the simplest explanation and you still dont get it.Roll


I never said all invention was unprofitable I simply state that it is wrong that T2BPO can exist printing isk at zero effort.

Please show me an example where an inventor can undercut a T2BPO please. Good luck BTW.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#582 - 2012-06-16 02:12:30 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Ore Bunny wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:


WTF are you on? You link two different ships.

Remove T2BPO make EVE real.


no ****, I linked two ships!

2 examples to prove that your theory about interceptors was just wrong. first example that showed you, that even with a T2 BPO you make negative profit (who cares if somebody can uncercut you or not when you lose money by building it), the other that you can make significant profit with inventing them.

god damn, I even have to explain the simplest explanation and you still dont get it.Roll


I never said all invention was unprofitable I simply state that it is wrong that T2BPO can exist printing isk at zero effort.

Please show me an example where an inventor can undercut a T2BPO please. Good luck BTW.


Nobody's suggested that (except your straw man). We have simply stated that the things that are unprofitable to invent are so because demand is tiny, and they would be terrible to invent regardless of BPOs existence.

Someone has also shown that running T2BPOs at a profit is a significant amount of work.

Moreover, T2BPOs don't significantly affect any large market, so they don't matter.

Finally, EvE is not Fair. Suck it up and eat your goddamn cake.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#583 - 2012-06-16 03:01:12 UTC
Christ's sake, he's only got a handful of line he uses over and over. Every time you refer him to proof that one is wrong, he goes on to another at random.

Certain players having an advantage over others is counter to EVE's particular paradigm - debunked. I call this one "DEATH TO PIE!"

BPO's exist which were given out for free by CCP to personal friends - debunked. That crap is false. I actually think it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world even if it were true. It would really be a bold statement about games as art. Why just make a game that appears corrupt when you can actually MAKE it corrupt? In other words, "NO FAIR! YOU KNOW THE BAKER!"

BPO lottery was rigged in favor of chosen groups or players - debunked. Players spent seriously significant resources in order to put themselves into better positions to acquire BPO's. Those with more resources had more success, as expected, and as intended. Apparently, apart from love, BPO's should be the only thing in EVE you can't buy for ISK. "I WASN'T AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE? NO FAIR!"

Lottery winners got billions for nothing - debunked. The diminished advantage currently afforded by BPO's is quaint in comparison to the initial outlay and even to the current, greatly diminished, market price for a BPO. Also known as "WAAAAHHHHH!"

Inventors are undercut by BPO holders - debunked. BPO holders undercutting inventors is a losing strategy. People don't acquire the power or wealth need to own a BPO by following losing strategies. Sure. a BPO holder COULD undercut inventors, but he'd have to be as stupid as Brewlar to do so. "HERP DERP!"

The rest can be summarized as variations of the above.
Sen Roo
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#584 - 2012-06-16 21:07:32 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
YAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAPYAP


Roll
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#585 - 2012-06-16 22:01:40 UTC
Salo Aldeland wrote:


Inventors are undercut by BPO holders - debunked. BPO holders undercutting inventors is a losing strategy. People don't acquire the power or wealth need to own a BPO by following losing strategies. Sure. a BPO holder COULD undercut inventors, but he'd have to be as stupid as Brewlar to do so. "HERP DERP!"

The rest can be summarized as variations of the above.



I sell **** I make from T2 BPOs at about 2x what it cost me no matter what the market price is.
some of it I can not even get 1.5 times what it costs to make, but I try to sell it at that.
Also, some of the stock I just can never unload at any price, so **** that..

It takes 3 BPOs just to pay for 1 plex month, and it requires me to do quite a lot of work.
Skorpynekomimi
#586 - 2012-06-17 00:55:19 UTC
Still going after thirty pages?
Shut the buggery up about T2 BPOs already. It was a lottery.

As for 'zero effort'... You still have to acquire the materials, and can't risk moving the thing. A T1 BPO, you can always replace, for a price. T2 ones are unique, priceless things too risky to move.

Economic PVP
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#587 - 2012-06-17 22:27:01 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Ore Bunny wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:


WTF are you on? You link two different ships.

Remove T2BPO make EVE real.


no ****, I linked two ships!

2 examples to prove that your theory about interceptors was just wrong. first example that showed you, that even with a T2 BPO you make negative profit (who cares if somebody can uncercut you or not when you lose money by building it), the other that you can make significant profit with inventing them.

god damn, I even have to explain the simplest explanation and you still dont get it.Roll


I never said all invention was unprofitable I simply state that it is wrong that T2BPO can exist printing isk at zero effort.

Please show me an example where an inventor can undercut a T2BPO please. Good luck BTW.


Well technically, I can accidentally buy a misspriced ship off the contracts in Jita and undercut some T2 BPO makers sell orders of his finished product Lol

But yhe, the T2 situation is in a current state of accidenlied.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#588 - 2012-06-17 23:01:30 UTC
Kara Books wrote:


But yhe, the T2 situation is in a current state of accidenlied.


very nice semi-cool Oneliner!

btw. didnt you get disqualified for posting unsourced fantasy numbers already?

shar'ra phone home
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#589 - 2012-06-18 10:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
CCP remove T2BPO and remove this embarrassing no longer gifted game item that completely strips EVE of it's self proclaimed top of the MMO intelligence pile and throws it down into WOW realm. An item that bitter vets had access to but new players are encouraged to spend 1000's of dollars on to obtain so they can succeed in producing T2 lines of their choice and maintain strict monopolies over by having the ability to undercut all other competition.

An item that is so overpowered that your own staff will risk their jobs to steal from you and sell/give to friends in game. An item that has cost you 1000's of dollars in lost subscriptions, time and effort , staffing problems and bad advertising across the entire web. T2BO brings nothing but negativity to the game and continues to harm CCP/EVE's image and the game itself.

Cut of this diseased limb or for ever have it hanging dead off EVE so people can sit and point to it and say ''well it's not really an E sport, look at these legacy items that give select players an invincible advantage over others just like WOW, an item unlike EVE's unique ships that can work 100% safe locked in station yet magically still be usable.''.
Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#590 - 2012-06-18 10:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffi Flaffi
There are so many T1 BPOs outside, that make more profit than T2 BPOs at much lower ISK investment. Why the hell do you care about T2 BPOs. I am sure you have absolutely no clue about this question. Leave it as it is. T2 BPOs do not harm CCPs image.... you are completely escapist.
shar'ra matcevsovski
Doomheim
#591 - 2012-06-18 10:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: shar'ra matcevsovski
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
An item that bitter vets had access to but new players are encouraged to spend 1000's of dollars on to obtain so they can succeed in producing T2 lines

- without having any offcial numbers I call this pure bullshit...the lest people bought their BPO`s with selling plex, you just have to be not totally bad at this game and put some effort into it.
- even if it would be true, why would CCP not want that ppl spend so much money for their ingame items?


Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

staffing problems and bad advertising across the entire web. T2BO brings nothing but negativity to the game and continues to harm CCP/EVE's image and the game itself.

to be fair, it would be just easier and simpler to remove YOU from the game, since your the only one I know, who is a real bad addvertisment till you decided to tell dumb untrue facts (steam forums) about eveBlink. fortunetly even in these out of game forums nobody realy believes you and even people who have never played the game find your propaganda embarassing and know that T2 BPO`s are not the problem

Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

Cut of this diseased limb or for ever have it hanging dead off EVE so people can sit and point to it and say ''well it's not really an E sport,'.


there we go, this is your main-problem...Eve cannot be an e-sport game because a sandbox-game works tottaly different.


E-sport != sandbox games

also if it would be a sport, it would be the lamest thing ever to cry like a whiny baby to change the rules to make it easier for indivduals

shar'ra phone home
Lukriss
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#592 - 2012-06-18 11:34:39 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
An item that is so overpowered that your own staff will risk their jobs to steal from you and sell/give to friends in game. An item


That was before invention.


The only reason to remove T2 bpo's is to stop the constant bitching about them.

Sincerly the guy who can't afford one and probably never will be able to.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#593 - 2012-06-18 12:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Lukriss wrote:


Sincerly the guy who can't afford one and probably never will be able to.



I have plenty of RP here so technically yes I can afford one for what they were traded. It's simply that I'm not allowed to trade my RP for T2BPO's.

As for removing me from the game or at least removing all my posts about T2BPO or T20. This was an option that CCP used in the past they had mass deletes to try hide the T20 incident and the ban hammer was swung several times but going into details about bans on this forum are against rules so I won't.
Lukriss
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#594 - 2012-06-18 13:05:10 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

I have plenty of RP here so technically yes I can afford one for what they were traded. It's simply that I'm not allowed to trade my RP for T2BPO's.


And now they trade for more, I don't see you complaining to Coca-Cola that you could once buy a coke for 5c and you can't anymore.
Using that as argumentation is just plain stupid, but again, so is this entire discussion.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#595 - 2012-06-18 13:51:46 UTC
Lukriss wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

I have plenty of RP here so technically yes I can afford one for what they were traded. It's simply that I'm not allowed to trade my RP for T2BPO's.


And now they trade for more, I don't see you complaining to Coca-Cola that you could once buy a coke for 5c and you can't anymore.
Using that as argumentation is just plain stupid, but again, so is this entire discussion.


No T2BPO were never initialy sold they were given out for realitively small amounts of RP. If CCP wants to allow us to trade RP for T2BPO they should give this option to everyone not just a select group of corps and players that they chose.
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#596 - 2012-06-18 14:08:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
There are so many T1 BPOs outside, that make more profit than T2 BPOs at much lower ISK investment. Why the hell do you care about T2 BPOs. I am sure you have absolutely no clue about this question. Leave it as it is. T2 BPOs do not harm CCPs image.... you are completely escapist.



I can get access to t1 bpo's on a level playing field heck If I wanted to get titan and capital prints that option is open to me, it may be difficult and take time and effort but it is an option. T2BPO however were given out to players of CCP choosing allowing them to build up massive stocks of isk through monopolising T2 in turn giving them access to even greater numbers of T2BPO further monopolising this. CCP countered with inventiion which was ******** because invention falls short of T2BPO when clearly it should be above it in terms of ME efficency while factoring in success rates.

Pro T2BPO supporters are right in one thing just plain removing the t2BPO's is not fair, to be fair would require nothing less than a full server restart to the point before the first T2BPO entered Tranq. If CCP were to acknowledge the error of the lottery, T20, T2BPO gifts and Inventions short comings by removing T2BPO now the game may actually settle into a true sandbox and be seen to have an E-sport side to the game.

Eve at this time is nothing but a MMO like WOW that tries to pretend to be a true sandbox but fails misreably because it has giant boils all over itself called T2BPO's that no amount of quirky advertising can cover.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#597 - 2012-06-18 15:59:52 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Lukriss wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

I have plenty of RP here so technically yes I can afford one for what they were traded. It's simply that I'm not allowed to trade my RP for T2BPO's.


And now they trade for more, I don't see you complaining to Coca-Cola that you could once buy a coke for 5c and you can't anymore.
Using that as argumentation is just plain stupid, but again, so is this entire discussion.


No T2BPO were never initialy sold they were given out for realitively small amounts of RP. If CCP wants to allow us to trade RP for T2BPO they should give this option to everyone not just a select group of corps and players that they chose.


They were never sold for RP. There was a lottery. Each RP was (in essence) a ticket. None of the T2BPOs currently in game were acquired unfairly.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#598 - 2012-06-18 16:00:56 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
There are so many T1 BPOs outside, that make more profit than T2 BPOs at much lower ISK investment. Why the hell do you care about T2 BPOs. I am sure you have absolutely no clue about this question. Leave it as it is. T2 BPOs do not harm CCPs image.... you are completely escapist.



I can get access to t1 bpo's on a level playing field heck If I wanted to get titan and capital prints that option is open to me, it may be difficult and take time and effort but it is an option. T2BPO however were given out to players of CCP choosing allowing them to build up massive stocks of isk through monopolising T2 in turn giving them access to even greater numbers of T2BPO further monopolising this. CCP countered with inventiion which was ******** because invention falls short of T2BPO when clearly it should be above it in terms of ME efficency while factoring in success rates.

Pro T2BPO supporters are right in one thing just plain removing the t2BPO's is not fair, to be fair would require nothing less than a full server restart to the point before the first T2BPO entered Tranq. If CCP were to acknowledge the error of the lottery, T20, T2BPO gifts and Inventions short comings by removing T2BPO now the game may actually settle into a true sandbox and be seen to have an E-sport side to the game.

Eve at this time is nothing but a MMO like WOW that tries to pretend to be a true sandbox but fails misreably because it has giant boils all over itself called T2BPO's that no amount of quirky advertising can cover.


You can get access to a T2BPO just as easily as T1.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121807&find=unread

Cheaper than a Titan BPO, too.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#599 - 2012-06-18 16:49:32 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:
There are so many T1 BPOs outside, that make more profit than T2 BPOs at much lower ISK investment. Why the hell do you care about T2 BPOs. I am sure you have absolutely no clue about this question. Leave it as it is. T2 BPOs do not harm CCPs image.... you are completely escapist.



I can get access to t1 bpo's on a level playing field heck If I wanted to get titan and capital prints that option is open to me, it may be difficult and take time and effort but it is an option. T2BPO however were given out to players of CCP choosing allowing them to build up massive stocks of isk through monopolising T2 in turn giving them access to even greater numbers of T2BPO further monopolising this. CCP countered with inventiion which was ******** because invention falls short of T2BPO when clearly it should be above it in terms of ME efficency while factoring in success rates.

Pro T2BPO supporters are right in one thing just plain removing the t2BPO's is not fair, to be fair would require nothing less than a full server restart to the point before the first T2BPO entered Tranq. If CCP were to acknowledge the error of the lottery, T20, T2BPO gifts and Inventions short comings by removing T2BPO now the game may actually settle into a true sandbox and be seen to have an E-sport side to the game.

Eve at this time is nothing but a MMO like WOW that tries to pretend to be a true sandbox but fails misreably because it has giant boils all over itself called T2BPO's that no amount of quirky advertising can cover.


You can get access to a T2BPO just as easily as T1.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=121807&find=unread

Cheaper than a Titan BPO, too.


I rather have the titan, more fun =)
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#600 - 2012-06-18 17:53:09 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
I don't care if I can still line up for cake, I missed the line up for pie and that's not fair! People are asking way too much for their slice of pie, pie was really cheap back when people first started lining up. Besides, people who knew the baker got to cut ahead, I'm positive! I can't think of any other way people could possible manage to be at the front of the line up other than the baker just choosing who goes where! In real life you don't have to line up for pie and there's enough for everybody, and if the baker ever stops making pie all the pies he's already baked have to be handed back in! Death to pie! Death to pie! You guys hate WoW, right? Well WoW is totally full of pie (don't look into it just believe me, I'm totally right) so if you like pie you like WoW, and around here that makes you stupid, so you're stupid!


Seriously, explain it to me like I'm five. What's a sandbox game? What's an e-sport? Where do BPO's come into this? Because it sounds to me like you're saying EVE isn't a sandbox at all because there's a limited number of BPO's in the game, and they're useful to own. And it isn't an e-sport at all, for exactly the same reason. So BPO's somehow simultaneously make EVE less like an e-sport ( and so more like a sand box ) and less of a true sand box ( therefor more like an e-sport). This is god damned confusing.