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Should I continue training for amarr ships for PvP .. or?

Author
Atreus Kadeyooh
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-06-17 18:08:26 UTC
Hello everyone,

Im a newbie to EVE, having just passed the 1mil SP mark. Im a heavy mission runner who would like to start doing "cheap" PvP sometime in the near future (cheap because I expect myself to die really a lot until I learn the basics). The thing is - Im amarr, and I train amarr related skills heavily (amarr ships, laser, armor tanking..).

When I browse guides, videos on YouTube and check killboards of PvP renowned corps, I RARELY EVER stumble over any amarr ships. In fact, many people keep telling me "cheap" amarr ships suck big time (cruisers and smaller hulls) due to their speed, lack of medium slots, low dps and lasers. Thinking about other aspects of EVE, I rarely ever stumble over any other amarr ships or amarr players in high-sec (industrial or suchlike).

Ive been told many times to wait a couple of months until I can get skills for battlecruisers / battleships and ISK to buy them frequently (Im a working person, so buying a PLEX now and then to finance EVE isnt a big deal, the skills will take forever though). Or to take a faste route and re-train into Caldari or Minmatar ships.

Since Im still fresh new and wont touch any PvP or interesting content in the next few months anyway, I may aswell make the choice now (keep training for amarr ships and be ready to burn plex for ISK to finance my PvP / start training for another race and possibly be able to fly cheaper yet decent ships).

Thoughts?
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#2 - 2012-06-17 18:33:03 UTC
The new Punisher is p awesome.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

Alara IonStorm
#3 - 2012-06-17 18:34:34 UTC
Hurricane
Drake
Rupture
Rifter
Merlin
Thrasher
Blackbird
Cyclone
Ferox
Caracal

Yeah cross train off Amarr. T1 Ships do not really get good until Large T2 weapons and Battleship Hulls. Nothing compared to the Drake and the Hurricane one of which you will want first for PvP.

The Drake is probably best for beginners.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2012-06-17 18:37:11 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
Every race has its strong points and weak points. Amarr frigs might have issues, but their Battleships are frikin awesome. Amarr guns themselves have nice optimal range and are good for beginners.

Minmatar race can fit their ships multiple ways. Shield or Armor, Missiles or Guns, Speed or Brick, etc, etc. If you continue to train Amarr, 90% of the skills will cross over later. [edit here] My point in this was: Minmatar takes a little longer to train well, because the ships are so versatile.

As for PvP, You will probably lose every ship you ever fly in PvP. Until you experience 100 fights or so, most losses will NOT be because of the race of ship. Your #1 goal is to learn from every loss.

Amarr is def a good PvP race in general.
Also, fly what YOU like. It is your game and your time.

Eve is a long term game. Goals take months and even years to attain. Asking questions this early is absolutely the right thing to do.

GL
Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2012-06-17 18:40:41 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:

As for PvP, You will probably lose every ship you ever fly in PvP. Until you experience 100 fights or so, most losses will NOT be because of the race of ship. Your #1 goal is to learn from every loss.

Don't worry OP you won't. You'll find a good gang and they'll show you the ropes. You'll die a bit more then your fleet mates but you will get your fare share of watching your enemies explode.
Atreus Kadeyooh
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-06-17 19:25:10 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Hurricane
Drake
Rupture
Rifter
Merlin
Thrasher
Blackbird
Cyclone
Ferox
Caracal

Yeah cross train off Amarr. T1 Ships do not really get good until Large T2 weapons and Battleship Hulls. Nothing compared to the Drake and the Hurricane one of which you will want first for PvP.

The Drake is probably best for beginners.


Im constantly being told exactly the same thing - Amarr are almost non-existent because in every class and role, they have a more potent counterpart. Maybe its because Im not talking to many Amarr players, but thats becuase I dont meet many.

Which race (ships) and weapons would you recommend cross training into? I suppose Caldari are the least viable (shields x armor). Minmatar?
Anazzar
Polaris Space Industries
#7 - 2012-06-17 19:50:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Anazzar
Atreus Kadeyooh wrote:


Im constantly being told exactly the same thing - Amarr are almost non-existent because in every class and role, they have a more potent counterpart. Maybe its because Im not talking to many Amarr players, but thats becuase I dont meet many.

Which race (ships) and weapons would you recommend cross training into? I suppose Caldari are the least viable (shields x armor). Minmatar?



Amarr has always been a bit lacking in the tech 1 cruiser & destroyer/frigate department if it wasn't for the arbitrator (awesome ship)I probably would of trained another race

although thats kind of changed with the new punisher which means hopefully they will finaly fix the omen and its fitting issues.

as for good amarr pvp ships, well they are more fleet orientated, if you look at fights bigger than a gang fighting off a gate you will always see alot of amarr ships and not just BS hulls.

also the drake is boring as hell, same with the tengu, but you can pretty much use them in all walks of life plus you can always train into amarr khanid ships if your eyes start to bleed from the boredom.
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
#8 - 2012-06-17 19:56:05 UTC
Don't fly a Drake. It's the worst ship in the game.

"The Cyclone and the Drake are two ships which will basically never be good for shield tanking, primarily because they have almost no lowslots in addition to shield tanking bonuses. " -Iam Widdershins

Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-06-17 21:01:28 UTC
Sub BS, the Amarr T1 ships tend to be lacking compared to their counterparts in other races. Amarr ships do tend to well in your classic gang but that's a rare beast nowadays. Popular gang types tend to be shield tanked/nano-fit, which really doesn't go well with Amarr. For solo work, Amarr ships lack midslots. A notable exception would be the Slicer, which is still a nano/kiting/midslotlacking ship.

The easiest crossover would be Gallente. Armor tanks, guns and drones are familiar. Unlike Amarr ships they have better solo power but their potential drops off in gangs not specifically buildt for them.

The second easiest but perhaps 'best' crossover would be Minmatar. Armor or shield tank and guns. They have better solo power aswell and you fit them to suit any gang type (provided you have the skills to use all those different modules)

Caldari have the drake...
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#10 - 2012-06-17 21:12:56 UTC
Punisher is good.
Coercer is good.
Arbitrator is good.
Maller is good.
Harbinger is good.
Battleships are all good.

Vengeance is good.
Retribution is good.
Zealot is good.
Curse is good.
Pilgrim is good.

There's 11 ships that are all good in the Amarr line up, from every ship class.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-06-17 21:19:18 UTC
Bill Serkoff2 wrote:
Don't fly a Drake. It's the worst ship in the game.


Only if they removed the Eagle.
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-06-17 21:29:06 UTC
Amarr might be lacking abit in the T1 department but their T2's are awesome, and the harbinger and battleships are also all awesome.

Yes amarr is generally abit more fleet oriented, but they do it good.
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-06-17 21:54:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dread Pirate Pete
The Amarr are fine ship wise, what you should fly really depends on what kind of style you want to play. Amarr tend towards mid range brawlers with good tank and range, average dps, but worse speed and tracking. Punishers make good noob ships, especially with the new changes to frigs, read the Flight of Dragons blog for excellent insight into Amarr frig tactics. Personally I stay far away from any 1v1 engagement with Amarr ewar platforms (snetinel, pilgrim, curse).

Train general skills, don't overcommit. Avoid running after flavours of the month, research the different styles and tactics of smaller ships and pick one that seems to fit you personally. Then buy a fistful of your preferred ship, fit them cheap, and go out fight stuff. Die horribly and learn from it. Then use what you've learned and tweak your fits or preferred frig type untill you feel like you know what you are doing. Later you can easily cross train all racial T1 frigates and guns to lvl 3 in an afternoon, put together a few cookie cutter fits from Battleclinic and get yourself killed to get a feel for the ones you like.
Dracan02
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#14 - 2012-06-18 08:55:33 UTC
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
Amarr might be lacking abit in the T1 department but their T2's are awesome, and the harbinger and battleships are also all awesome.

Yes amarr is generally abit more fleet oriented, but they do it good.


amarr are definitely better fleet ships as most fleets are RR and they have the staying power for a slug fest. on the other hand you see small minmatar gangs raising hell because they are fast and hit hard.
so go with what feels right for you.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#15 - 2012-06-18 12:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Well Amarr are a mixed bag, but very powerful when used correctly.

There frigs (Slicer, Retri and Vengance particularly) are top class.

The Oracle, Zealot, Harbinger, Sacrilege, Curse all perform admirably in Nano gangs, so not all Amarr are hulking bricks.

However hulking bricks are what Amarr do best, ones with Massive extremely well projected Deeps.

The gank Geddon is one of the most powerful Gank BS, cheap and 1000+ Deeps with good skills.

Abaddons are a popular fleet comp and are extremely powerful when used well.

Guardians are still considered the Premium in armour Logistics.

Pilgrims are great Solo boats.

There are far more but I cant think of them.

If you want to stick with Amarr, stick with it, its up to you, it performs well across many PVP situations.

Cross training is diversification, not change.

Also, Scorch ******* wins EVE

And dont listen to People who tell you to fly Drakes cos there the bestest thing evar, there wrong.
Renier Gaden
Immortal Guides
#16 - 2012-06-18 14:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Renier Gaden
One option would be to train for the Drake, because it does everything. Then once you are proficient on the drake go back to training toward Amarr battleships.

The Drake is the ultimate Noob PVP ship. It is relatively inexpensive. It is as glamourous as a minivan, and just as common, so it does not get primaried. (They will shoot at the glamorous ships first.) If someone does decide to shoot at you, it can take a beating. And best of all, it can hit anything it can lock. In your early PVP encounters with your heart pounding and your hand shaking from the adrenalin rush, it is nice not to have to wary about optimal range, as you will be doing good just to lock the correct target and activate your weapons, and the Drake is still decent later when you are more experienced and calmer. (The Drake is not the “bestest ever”, it is just good at everything, easy to fly, does not require a great deal of training to be effective, and does not cost much.)

Another option is to just switch to Minmatar. The Hurricane is probably the most common PVP ship in low and Null sec. It can be armour or shield tanked, and it is also very common, which means you usually won’t be the juiciest target in the fleet, although they get primaried more often than Drakes. If you stick with Minmatar, all three of their battleships are used commonly in PVP. If you decide to cross train back to Amarr, the Armour skills, and many of the gun skills are transferable.

I fly Caldari, but if I had it to do over again I would train Amarr Battleships to 5 rather than training Caldari Baggleships to 5. There is just a lot more demand for Amarr Battleships in PVP. But below Battleship size, Caldari and Minmatar have the best PVP ships. (And I am not just talking about the Drake and Hurricane.) There is a massive jump in training time when you go to Battleships, so I suggest you train for your choice of Battlecruisers, then pick the Battleship you want to train for based on what you want to fly, rather than what race you have been training. It does not take that much time to train frigates and cruisers to 4 on another race’s ships to qualify for battleships for that race.
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#17 - 2012-06-18 14:13:03 UTC
http://flight-of-dragons.blogspot.de/

Very good blog about learning PvP. He is even using a Pre-Buff Punisher. Especially interesting because he does not only tell about his fights, but analyzes them.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#18 - 2012-06-18 22:01:42 UTC
As others have said, it will take many fights before you can honestly tell yourself that the ship was holding you back, and that your piloting was flawless. The new Punisher is pretty good and hits a little harder thanks to the damage bonus. I've been using the following fit with pretty good results.

3x Dual light Pulse
1x Nos

1x Scram
1x AB

1x 200mm plate
1x small armor rep
1x DCU
1x Heatsink

1x Energy collision rig
1x Energy optimal rig
1x Aux nano pump/anti explosive rig

Use scorch and Navy multi, and remember to always keep your transversal up. The punisher has a tiny signature radius of 37, so abuse that all you can!
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#19 - 2012-06-18 23:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Christine Peeveepeeski
Amarr have some great ships to pvp in but everyone else above me has shown you why so i'll mention something else.

Most pvp capable amarr ships look baddass awesome.

Slicer = Pointy death awesome.
Coercer = 'I've got 1 mid slot but I'm going to burn your face off before you warp' awesome.
Arbi = Sleek 'I'm gonna kill you slowly while you watch' awesome.
Prophecy = could be considered a comical chicken but is in fact still full of awesome win. (I actually think harbi is only pvp capable ship without lol fits but it looks bad).
Abaddon = DO NOT **** WITH ME awesome

On a serious note, while I can see a few good fits for the harbi i just don't rate amarr BC's that highly. Otherwise all amarr ship classes can rock some really nice ships.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-06-19 02:52:10 UTC
The crusader is the best frig sized hull in the game bar none.
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